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Is racism acceptable in predominantly white areas then?

200 replies

beansprout · 02/07/2005 20:07

Have just been to Lyme Regis for my holiday. Was utterly shocked to repeatedly see golliwogs for sale in toy shops and at craft fairs but the piece de resistance was surely being in a book shop and seeing a book called "The Little Black Sambo" for sale. This was a children's book, which somehow made it worse. I told the manager I was very offended by this but she was incredibly ignorant. She started off by saying "are you black?" (I'm not) so I explained that I don't have to be black to be offended by racism.

To cut a long story short she was adamant that the book was fine and I was the one being ignorant (?!). She was very defensive and absolutely refused to acknowledge what I was saying.

I was born and live in London. You just wouldn't see this stuff here but is it really normal in other areas? Am interested to know!!

OP posts:
happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 15:32

When you watch TV clips from the 60s and 70s you can see how much our attitudes to race have changed, they make me cringe. I've just read a book based on real peoples diaries from the 40s and could hardly belived the racism and sexism that was the norm in those days.

We may well not be persfect, but we have moved a hell of a long way

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 16:20

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happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 16:22

I don't think that racism 'hardly exists'. But I do feel that we have come a long way in recognising it, and encouraging diversity.

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 16:24

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QueenOfQuotes · 03/07/2005 16:33

"I'm really genuinely shocked that mother's of mixed race children would allow them to have golliwogs"

Well as I said it was the "father" of my coloured children who accepted the present from my parents......I was still in the hospital at the time recovering from the birth of DS2

It's also him that reads the bedtime stories and is looking forward to reading Enid Blyton's "The Three Golliwogs" to them

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 16:34

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QueenOfQuotes · 03/07/2005 16:35

see no-ones answered my question about "little BIll" either (apart from Fran who got the wrong end of the stick )

happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 16:36

Havent seen it so I can't comment. Cartoons often over emphasise features tho don't they? of all races?

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 16:38

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fairyfly · 03/07/2005 16:38

absolutely no idea why a gollywog in a shop would be thought of as racist. Maybe if you picked it up and said, that looks like a blacky and they are all idots it would be. It's just a toy ffs, i think the history of peoples opinions and attitudes towards them are racist but not the mere fact it exists. It is nothing it is not a living and breathing person. iot is just a produst of sick minded attitudes that really don't have to connected with it anymore.

i find this thread offensive if im honest, it is another, it wouldn't happen in london trip, as if we all like any basic education and knowledge if we don't live their. it is appalling that the question is asked as if we are all bloody thick enough to be bnp memebers if we don't come from the capital of the world

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 16:42

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fairyfly · 03/07/2005 16:51

it is offensive because it is suggesting that if you not from london and live in a predominantly white area you find racism acceptabe

gothicmama · 03/07/2005 16:54

of course racism and other kinds of isms are never accceptable. People tend to react to isms out of fear of the unknown and lack of education . A colour blind approach to life is far more offensive in my opinion and I think this why golly's can be seen as offensive as well as their other name.
It may be taht in predominently white areas it more noticable that racism exists but I have witnessed it in cities where it has not been clear cut white/ black racism

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 16:54

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Enid · 03/07/2005 17:09

it is a bit London-centric this thread

QofQ do you spend the whole time making your dh play with gollywogs, read books about gollywogs and laugh at racist jokes all in order to confound stereotypes?

Enid · 03/07/2005 17:11

also I was thinking...you don't often hear of racist 'attacks' down here, whereas there were lots in London - our local shop in London had its windows broken and pakis go home sprayed on the door for example - have never encountered that vehemence in Dorset.

HappyMumof2 · 03/07/2005 17:56

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mytwopenceworth · 03/07/2005 18:02

scummy mummy - re their white mothers letting them have gollywogs - as i said in my post it was my dh - who is black, who bought it. if he is not offended by it, and sees it as just a toy, who am i to say no dear, you are wrong, as a black man you have a duty to be offended by this rag doll??

also i dont understand 'their white mothers being so unwilling to see racism in situations where many others are clear that it is an issue?' what about my husband? he also doesnt see this big racism is everywhere thing, and since he is black, surely i must take his word for it that he doesnt think its an issue (for him, in his life) and he is not affected by it. - i just asked him now actually has he ever been racially abused since he moved to uk (10 yrs ago), he said no. who am i to tell him, no dear, you MUST have been a victm of racism because you are black - wouldnt that in itself be racist, to assume that he must be a victim?

Hercules - all i can say is racism is not an issue in the life of my family and we just dont encounter it.

happymumof2 - i dont know what to say, i think racism is rare based on my personal experience. we just dont come across it, are we supposed to examine everyone and everything for possible racism? how would we know what to look for? (not said in sarky confrontational tone btw, but typed it comes across a bit narky, which its not meant to!!!) if we did that, we would convince ourselves that we were victims - the postie who doesnt shut my gate, is it cos he doesnt care if mixed race kids get onto the road, or is it cos he had a skinful the night before and is well hung over? the woman in the co-op who looks at us, is she thinking BLACK BLACK BLACK, or is she thinking, cute kids (they are handsome!!) the man down the pub who is drunk and calls you a t**t, is it cos he hates black people, or cos he's a drunken arse? you will interprit everything to have a racial motivation if you choose to.

we have never been racially abused, we have not heard first hand accounts from any of our friends of racial abuse, we have lived in london and now out in the sticks, and it is our first hand experience that the people we come across in our life dont give a rats arse what colour you are.

its only my opinion based on my personal experience, but im not going to create a problem where we as a mixed race family do not see one currently existing. im not going to start putting a racial slant on my every encounter with another human being. it doesnt matter what colour my family is, what matters is that we are decent human beings.

i am truly horrified to hear that there are people out there who are being victimised however, and am on hand with a baseball bat and a whole lot of attitude if you want me to come over and sort them out , or - you could all come live in my village where noone seems to care!

hercules · 03/07/2005 18:04

I grew up in Devon and didnt see racism but there was no non whites around. My school had 1500 white kids.
In London where I live now racism is every where.

I'd rather live here though then risk an all white area where my kids have no similar children.

I could of course be wrong and often debate this with dh. We'd like to move to the countryside but fear the unknown for our kids.

hercules · 03/07/2005 18:06

I think the misunderstanding from your post was that you thought racism was rare. Sure, in your own experience it may well be but that isnt the case outside of that.

Certainly not where I live and work anyway.

mytwopenceworth · 03/07/2005 18:17

and thats the thing isnt it herc? we can all only go on our personal experience. so so sorry to hear you feel racism is everywhere. that must be very deperessing.

mytwopenceworth · 03/07/2005 18:17

although not as 'deperessing' as my spelling!

lemonice · 03/07/2005 18:39

You may find this site interesting as regards racism reported in the UK Monitoring Group

I was trying to find something by an interesting academic called Paul Gilroy on Little Black Sambo as I'm sure it was an issue when I was at university in the seventies and he was my tutorial partner, but couldn't find anything specific...

However, he is well worth reading if you can penetrate his writing, although his viewpoint has become a bit Americanised as he has been a professor at Yale in the nineties but now I think back in the UK at LSE. Can't really summarise his views as he has a brain the size of a small planet but if you are interested in media and culture and can cope with some complex ideas he is worth looking up...

hercules · 03/07/2005 19:03

Not what I feel but what I see!!!

Enid · 03/07/2005 19:04

I wouldn't buy it for my girls though. Even though I remember enjoying it when little.

(I wish they'd reprint her Ant and Bee books though as they really are fab)