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Original poster

This is who the Tory Party are, read this if you are even considering giving them your vote.

230 replies

Rhubarb · 09/10/2009 14:03

A few facts about the Conservative Party that you should know if you are being persuaded by their talk of change.

David Cameron was born in London, his father was a stockbroker and his mother the daughter of Sir William Mount. His ancestors from his father?s side hail from bankers and stockbrokers, it?s how they made their fortune. Cameron went to Eton and then Oxford where he was a member of the notorious Bullingdon Club. He has stated publicly that he is a huge fan of Thatcher. Unsurprisingly he voted against the hunting ban, being a hunter himself. He has been criticised by his own party members for being too Etonian and out of touch with reality.

In 1989 Cameron accepted an invite to South Africa paid for by an anti-sanctions lobby. This was whilst Nelson Mandela was still in prison. He was quoted as describing the trip thus: ?it was all terribly relaxed, just a little treat, a perk of the job.?

Cameron?s wife Samantha is the daughter of Sir Reginald Adrian Berkeley Sheffield and the Viscountess Astor. Their combined wealth is estimated at £30m plus.

George Osborne is the eldest son and heir of Sir Peter Osborne and was originally named Gideon. He was educated at Oxford and he too was a member of the Bullingdon Club. He has two children who are privately educated.

He was caught up in the expenses row after he ?flipped? his second home in order to pay less tax, the Lib Dems reckoned he got away with £55,000 by doing this. He also claimed for a mortgage that was paid, chauffeur fares and two copies of a DVD of his own speech on, of all topics, ?value for taxpayers money?. He subsequently paid it back.

He also tried to solicit a £50,000 donation from a Russian multi-billionaire back in 2008.

So there are 3 members of Oxford?s Bullingdon Club in the Tory Party right now, all from the same year. Isn?t that nice for them? A club that was noted for it?s drunken antics, willful destruction of restaurants (run by working class people), bars and windows and it?s arrogance in the face of the law.

Of the Tory Party itself, there are currently 17 Conservative women MPs compared to 95 in the Labour Party.
Of the occupations of MPs, in the 2005 general election there were 35 manual workers in the Labour Party compared to 2 in Conservative. Labour had 32 school teachers, Tories had 6.
In the same election there were 13 non-white Labour MPs and just 2 Conservative MPs.
Of those going to fee-paying schools, in 2005 118 Tory MPs came from fee-paying schools compared to 63 Labour MPs. 43% of Tory MPs were Oxbridge education compared to 16% of Labour.

So whenever anyone tries to tell you that the Conservatives do live in the real world and are all for making ordinary peoples lives better, quote these figures at them.

Me, I might vote Lib Dems.

OP posts:
frogetyfrog · 09/10/2009 17:08

Well, somewhere back I think I read that the state of the NHs etc was worse under conservatives. Im not so sure. Nobody can get an NHS dentist round here for love nor money - everybody I know is on private. GPs are paid ridiculous amounts of money for less work out of the public purse - they have reduced their hours and do not work evenings or weekends round here at all. If you want to see a doc you have to take annual leave and see him/her but my friends dh (doctor) is laughing all the way to the bank (in his exact words). Maybe some people are better off now than under the conservatives - but not us and we are just normal working class people who work hard and struggle to pay to raise a family. I will be voting conservative (first time) and know for a fact that a lot of my friends are converted too.

Kathyis12feethighandbites · 09/10/2009 17:09

What makes me PMSL about Cameron being in the Bullingdon is the fact that he was quoted a couple of years ago saying 'I had a perfectly normal student experience.' Snigger. He may just be a little bit out of touch.

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 17:12

missingmywheels there are several other posts going which may suit your debating requirements better, admittedly this one is rather erm ... boisterous.

anyone claiming that the tories are the party of women/ethnic minorities is on shaky ground.

Labour for many years had all women short lists. i am afraid the a list was little more than a tool for creating a cameron faithful group of MPs to get the tories elected by making the party more colourful. ti says no more about his attitude to women etc than his going to eton says about his lack of empathy for the poor

i know personally a current tory candidate who was not on the a-list on the basis that she supported david davis during the leadership but still managed to become ppc due to sheer determination over the other a listers who were foisted upon the seat.

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 17:14

abd, i dont really like think DC's child is appropriate fodder for the equation.

franklymydear · 09/10/2009 17:16

they may well be facts but they're not fucking relevant ones, a relevant fact is actions taken and not as impetuous youth either

it's like saying don't vote labour because they're from poor backgrounds or they used to get hammered at uni

its what they do that counts

Ive been rather embarrassed by the actions of our current government who threw socialism out the window in favour of easyroad governing appealing to the middle classes

politics is corrupt in general it seems but then who would wnat to be a politician?

franklymydear · 09/10/2009 17:16

they may well be facts but they're not fucking relevant ones, a relevant fact is actions taken and not as impetuous youth either

it's like saying don't vote labour because they're from poor backgrounds or they used to get hammered at uni

its what they do that counts

Ive been rather embarrassed by the actions of our current government who threw socialism out the window in favour of easyroad governing appealing to the middle classes

politics is corrupt in general it seems but then who would wnat to be a politician?

ABetaDad · 09/10/2009 17:22

HerHonesty - the point is we are the sum of our experiences. The Bullingdon Club is as relevant as the death of his child.

MissingMyWheels · 09/10/2009 17:25

Fair point herhonesty - though hopefully I'll still be able to hold my own! Not as bad as things used to get in the Bullingdon of course

I don't lay claim to thinking the Tories are the party of women/minorities. All I would say is there are many more women/minority candidates for the Tories than there were before, and this is change. As 'change' was exactly what the OP had argued wasn't happening, I figured it was a point worth making.

Another point worth making is that the Conservative party have a higher number of women in the Shadow Cabinet than the Labour Cabinet (7 versus 4), and the only Cabinet Minister/Shadow Minister from a minority background is on the Conservative side, as far as I'm aware...

mackerel · 09/10/2009 17:26

the Bullingdon Club members represent - are - the essence of the most repellent type of Oxford uni. male. I think that sense of privilege and entitlement is indescribably awful. My sister knew DC at college and although you are different in your 40s to your 20s I still think that you have the same sort of traits now as then - and I think that beneath the veneer I'm not convinced that DC is any different now to then. I really dislike GO, which is, I know, unfair because I've never met him. However, when I look at him he really sums up what I hated most about Oxford and particularly about some of the men who were there, and it grieves me that they are prob. going to be voted in. Really some of those men were just awful and getting away with stuff that is astonishing. truly terrible stuff. Equally I met some lovely down to earth people there and I don't have a problem with an Oxbridge educated MP, but there's Oxford for the likes of most of us and then there's the Bullingdon Club and that is the problem.

mackerel · 09/10/2009 17:34

Okay so on reading that I may have been generalising a little too much and wouldn't want to offend lots of perfectly nice men who happened to be at Oxford. Bad memories. I hated being at Oxford.

WinkyWinkola · 09/10/2009 17:55

So what awful stuff exactly, mackerel?

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 18:01

ABD i get that but i really dont like someone wheeling out (or other peopld doing it on their behalf) their disabled and now unfortunately passed away child as "proof" that they are "normal" "in touch with the poor". I dont think GB is either for that matter, and he has lost a child and has one with CF.

the only proof of being in touch is the policies that you create. I havent seen ANYTHING yet that persuades me DC will do more for those who are the least well off, least able to make the most of their inate skills and abilities in society.

daftpunk · 09/10/2009 18:06

nothing wrong with a good education...a requirement of the job i think...

swiftyknickers · 09/10/2009 18:10

DC is nob-end of-once all the sheen and spin has worn off and he is in power everyone will see that.end

SomeGuy · 09/10/2009 19:23

i dunno, it never stopped Blair from winning 3 selections in a row.

SomeGuy · 09/10/2009 19:24

elections even.

whomovedmychocolate · 09/10/2009 19:31

Ah I can't be arsed to argue really (or read beyond page 1 - sorry) but I was a pretty arrogant twonk when I was at university as well - I thought that was part of the deal - three years of thinking the world revolves around you before actually having to grow up a bit.

I'm sorry but I don't actually have a problem with people having money. People who grow up with money have an inbuilt confidence and that helps them. If you believe you can achieve anything and that you have the resources to do that - you are much more likely to get there - that's a lot easier if you have money, n'est pas?

This doesn't mean they are automatically wankers. Some of them are I agree but I know lots of people who grew up poor who are equally wanktastic. Is your objection that they have succeeded or that they didn't need to. Would you be happier if they loafed around living off their inheritances?

I don't really understand the conservative party or the labour party - or what they stand for these days. But I'm not willing to condemn either for their backgrounds.

notnowbernard · 09/10/2009 19:40

The Eton thing does matter to me

Several people have said it doesn't/shouldn't matter - people can't help who their family are etc - and of course, that is true

But being a part of such an elite group, mixing with such a narrow part of the societal make-up of this country... I just wonder how much depth of understanding there is of those in this country whose lives are so very far removed from their own

Can there be any empathy?

My understanding and knowledge of British politics is scant (to say the least) compared to the many posters on this thread. So I don't feel I can contribute in an academic or learned way. But these are my gut feelings when considering who I want to govern this country

NewPenName · 09/10/2009 19:47

mackerel, spill the beans! This is intriguing! What traits did yr sis think dc had then at college?

whomovedmychocolate · 09/10/2009 19:53

Notnowbernard - I've worked with Etonians and they are special or at least they think they are and actually they do all appear to be quite smart (even Boris is quite clever he just has the tact and diplomacy of a blunderbuss - but like a labrador may be trainable!)

I think though that you need to think of the opposite - if you go to the inner city sink school where no-one gets exams and your outlook is limited to those people who surround you, none of which work and who have a very functional value-set (ie they are more focused on surviving than planning) you probably get an equally twisted outlook.

notnowbernard · 09/10/2009 20:12

WMMC - yes, good point indeed

I have worked on those sink estates, lived on those sink estates... it is about survival for the majority that exist there

But the question I find myself pondering over and over is this: Do I sincerely believe that DC, GO et al are willing and able to try and work toward the process of enabling a shift in that 'sink' mentality?

When they're talking about getting so many hundred thousand off incapacity benefit, I don't believe it, no... I believe the divide will become even greater and that the poverty cycle for those right at the bottom will become more entrenched

Tortington · 09/10/2009 20:14

NNB - i have also worked and lived there - and re: your post - hasn't is always ben thus?! the Tory party make the rich richer - thats why the rich vote for them.

i wish the poor would vote.

Tortington · 09/10/2009 20:16

i hink it was someguy who said they kill kittens too - i think that this point is worth remembering

Tortington · 09/10/2009 20:16

kitten killing tory barstards.

i think smallwhitecat should watch out

whomovedmychocolate · 09/10/2009 20:20

Custardo - I think voting should be compulsory - even if you allow vote spoilage it's appalling that people just don't bother.

Notnowbernard - I'm not sure what is in DC/GO et al's minds but being far removed from a problem does not prohibit being able to solve it. Often those entrenched in problems cannot solve them because they are too close to the front line. If you can coldly assess from afar you can take calculated action. I don't believe all the baby-kissing/flying visit to Lambeth stuff actually does any good in changing views (except local voter views perhaps). I do believe the majority of good politics is about making calculated plans while you are far enough away not to smell the problem.