Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Other subjects

Anyone else feel aggrieved by the Child-free movement?

219 replies

beatie · 16/05/2005 11:18

Mostly my feelings have surfaced in response to this article

in The Observer and the responses of support it provoked the following week. (Can't find them online but they are the usual)

I?m pretty sick of smug journalists writing articles about being child-free and how they feel so hard done by because the rest of society is having children. I?m as sick of their articles vilifying parents as I am sick of reading articles about parenting.

Must there be such a polarisation of child-free Vs parents within society? Can the two camps not co-exist and appreciate what all have to offer society?

And what about some of the terminology that is used by the Child-free, by men and women?. Some of it smacks of misogyny. Child-rearers? Breeders? What vile phrases for women to use against their fellow womankind.

I don?t give two hoots if women make a choice not to have children but I mind very much that they have a problem with those who do. Whilst their act of not having children is no more selfish than my desire to have children, they do show themselves up to being selfish people when they start complaining about their taxes being spent on things which benefit children - like education, nursery places maternity benefits etc? Are they that small-minded not to realise that we ALL pay taxes into a pot from which we do not take out an even amount? I don?t begrudge paying for day centres for the mentally ill, drug rehabilitation units, incapacity benefit, unemployment benefits, new roads, regeneration projects (the list could go on) or many things which I rarely use or hope never to use. Why are parents being singled out?

Have they forgotten that sometime in the past, someone?s taxes paid for their maternity ward, their children?s library, their education?

One the one hand they complain that they come last in the queue to be allowed to take holidays during school holiday time whilst on the other hand gloat that they can take several long-haul (term-time) holidays per year (in fact cite this as a huge plus reason not to have children)

I wholeheartedly agree that ALL employees (not just parents) should be entitled to flexible working and should be able to establish a good work/life balance but often it is non-parents who set the precedence for working excessive hours over and above what is contracted. Also, why moan to us? Parents and parenting groups have spent decades fighting for flexible working rights (it?s not like we even really have it - only the right to request it). If other groups want it, then they can fight for it too.

Pre-children I worked in two different places of work which offered flexi-time to all. My BIL has no children and is allowed to take a 3 month sabbatical every two years (he uses it to travel). Another friend of mine is child-free and she has been allowed to compact her hours into 4 days. Such flexible jobs do exist for non-parents. And there are plenty of part-time jobs out there? many, many part time jobs. They are typically low paid and lowly rewarded but nothing is stopping non-parents from applying for these jobs.

Do child-free women really want a return to the 1960s attitude towards women of childbearing age? How would it benefit them if ALL women had to leave their careers and work-places as soon as they have a baby? It would most probably send the feminism backwards, leaving these child-free women working in an even more male-dominated workplace, perhaps having to put up with sexist comments from the men wondering when the said child-free woman was going to leave and have babies.

Grrrr - can you tell I get a bit hot under the collar about this?!

OP posts:
aloha · 18/05/2005 15:30

Oh god, I wouldn't underestimate the work involved in being a single parent. Not at all. Total respect.

webmum · 18/05/2005 15:32

DillyDally

I had not seen your post when I wrote my last one...Of course its better to ahve support weekends only than none at all!!

DillyDally · 18/05/2005 15:34

And i can fully appreciate it being hard having less help than anticipated - no argument intended

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 15:35

I don't think it's smug to say you love your children. I think it's smug to imply that your children have improved you in comparison to the person you're speaking to. I do think that it's smug to say 'you don't understand exhaustion/love/grief/the meaning of life till you've had kids' to someone who doesn't have them.

muminlondon · 18/05/2005 15:42

is it smug to say you don't understand grief till one of your parents has died? Because I didn't understand bereavement till I was bereaved. Then I didn't understand how tiring it was to have a new baby until I had a new baby.

muminlondon · 18/05/2005 15:43

sorry, I should say 'until someone close to you has died'. Death of a sibling is probably even more shocking, not to mention death of a child, and I daren't contemplate that one yet.

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 15:44

Maybe you didn't understand exhaustion - or more accurately the exhaustion of having a new baby - till you had one. The difference is that is your experience. When I was told that 'you don't know what it's like to be tired, you don't have a baby' I was sleeping about three hours a night, as it happened.

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 15:47

It's the generalisation about parenthood making you a finer person that is very hard to deal with.

aloha · 18/05/2005 15:53

I can understand that, MI, but I never experienced it. Unless I just didn't notice.
I think it is actually harder to be single in a world of couples.

aloha · 18/05/2005 16:00

An ex boss of mine did once say, "I can't imagine you as a mother', which I thought was pretty unkind, but she was a famous A grade bitch, and I knew that, so couldn't take it too personally.
But most of my friends who were mothers were more of the 'Oh God I had a hideous day with my kids' sort, rather than of the evangelical wing. I am more evangelical than they are, though try to keep a lid on it with childless friends. I sometimes think I am much more careful and tactful with them than they are with me. Sometimes the childless think they have carte blanche to mock the whole experience of parenthood, or have you never found that?

Caligula · 18/05/2005 16:04

hey Webmum, I'm not offended, just examining that phrase - I wouldn't go to the wire in defence or condemnation of it!

Do smug parents really imply that they're better people than childless people? Or is that the interpretation of the listener? I have to say, i never experienced it (but then, I didn't live in North London! )

beatie · 18/05/2005 16:05

"Sometimes the childless think they have carte blanche to mock the whole experience of parenthood, or have you never found that?"

Yes, some of my friends are like that. Some of them do the whole "Ewww" thing as if a major part of parenting entails changing pooey nappies. I very quickly realised after having DD that changing a dirty nappy is NOT the hardest part of being a parent

OP posts:
Caligula · 18/05/2005 16:05

Hey Aloha, if she was an A grade bitch, maybe she was trying to compliment you?

aloha · 18/05/2005 16:07

Nice try Caligula

Cam · 18/05/2005 16:08

Finer person, no, in fact parenthood is a bit of a test of one's finer points in most cases. But a society which at large doesn't support parenthood as a concept and parents in reality (to which car spaces are a mere sop)is getting to the root of our problematic society methinks.

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 16:10

I've had 'I still can't see you as a mother' . In response to my second birth announcement.

muminlondon · 18/05/2005 16:11

i don't like this media polarisation of the debate, it's too simplistic, about market segments (when you could fall into different categories as your life progresses).

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 16:11

I suppose I feel that the polarisation between parents and non-parents is not entirely the fault of non-parents.

beatie · 18/05/2005 16:12

Cam - I agree.

OP posts:
motherinferior · 18/05/2005 16:12

And I do not think it's a media invention. It's a reality which some of us have experienced. Even those of us who live in South London.

Cam · 18/05/2005 16:13

But it is polarised, one either is a parent or not, as has also been pointed out earlier you can't stop once you are one, its not a hobby you can give up or a pet you can return to the pet shop.......

bossykate · 18/05/2005 16:15

"Sometimes the childless think they have carte blanche to mock the whole experience of parenthood, or have you never found that?"

yes i have found this and also carte blanche to:

  • freely refer to you "dumping" your kids in childcare
  • say it can't possibly be that hard and anyway they frequently do long days in the office
  • think that maternity pay should only be paid on your return to work
  • give you the benefit of their strongly held opinions on child rearing - opinions backed up neither by experience nor research

actually, i have dropped my childless friends who used to do this - just couldn't stand being around them any longer. i know one of them is trying for a baby with his partner atm - he has a big shock coming - and i bet he will be an absolutely awful "noone has ever had a baby before" style parent.

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 16:17

Yes, it's something you've done. Parenthood is something which in many ways defines - usually - our circumstances and our activities. Some of us (I'm not sure I do) feel that it defines us, who we are, in a quite fundamental way which is different from the person we were before. But we live in a society which increases the divisions between those of us who do and don't have children. And parents - see the remark I cited below - do sometimes increase rather than reduce those divisions.

motherinferior · 18/05/2005 16:19

But BK, what about the immediate assumption that those people - especially if they're female and over 35 - are just bitter spinsters? I've seen that on MN!

bossykate · 18/05/2005 16:20

mi, i don't know why you are calling me to account for that assumption - i haven't made it or defended it.