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Anyone else feel aggrieved by the Child-free movement?

219 replies

beatie · 16/05/2005 11:18

Mostly my feelings have surfaced in response to this article

in The Observer and the responses of support it provoked the following week. (Can't find them online but they are the usual)

I?m pretty sick of smug journalists writing articles about being child-free and how they feel so hard done by because the rest of society is having children. I?m as sick of their articles vilifying parents as I am sick of reading articles about parenting.

Must there be such a polarisation of child-free Vs parents within society? Can the two camps not co-exist and appreciate what all have to offer society?

And what about some of the terminology that is used by the Child-free, by men and women?. Some of it smacks of misogyny. Child-rearers? Breeders? What vile phrases for women to use against their fellow womankind.

I don?t give two hoots if women make a choice not to have children but I mind very much that they have a problem with those who do. Whilst their act of not having children is no more selfish than my desire to have children, they do show themselves up to being selfish people when they start complaining about their taxes being spent on things which benefit children - like education, nursery places maternity benefits etc? Are they that small-minded not to realise that we ALL pay taxes into a pot from which we do not take out an even amount? I don?t begrudge paying for day centres for the mentally ill, drug rehabilitation units, incapacity benefit, unemployment benefits, new roads, regeneration projects (the list could go on) or many things which I rarely use or hope never to use. Why are parents being singled out?

Have they forgotten that sometime in the past, someone?s taxes paid for their maternity ward, their children?s library, their education?

One the one hand they complain that they come last in the queue to be allowed to take holidays during school holiday time whilst on the other hand gloat that they can take several long-haul (term-time) holidays per year (in fact cite this as a huge plus reason not to have children)

I wholeheartedly agree that ALL employees (not just parents) should be entitled to flexible working and should be able to establish a good work/life balance but often it is non-parents who set the precedence for working excessive hours over and above what is contracted. Also, why moan to us? Parents and parenting groups have spent decades fighting for flexible working rights (it?s not like we even really have it - only the right to request it). If other groups want it, then they can fight for it too.

Pre-children I worked in two different places of work which offered flexi-time to all. My BIL has no children and is allowed to take a 3 month sabbatical every two years (he uses it to travel). Another friend of mine is child-free and she has been allowed to compact her hours into 4 days. Such flexible jobs do exist for non-parents. And there are plenty of part-time jobs out there? many, many part time jobs. They are typically low paid and lowly rewarded but nothing is stopping non-parents from applying for these jobs.

Do child-free women really want a return to the 1960s attitude towards women of childbearing age? How would it benefit them if ALL women had to leave their careers and work-places as soon as they have a baby? It would most probably send the feminism backwards, leaving these child-free women working in an even more male-dominated workplace, perhaps having to put up with sexist comments from the men wondering when the said child-free woman was going to leave and have babies.

Grrrr - can you tell I get a bit hot under the collar about this?!

OP posts:
muminlondon · 18/05/2005 14:31

it is totally mad to think you actually get privileges when you have children. Weird. I can't think of any.

beatie · 18/05/2005 14:31

Cam - when I read the No Kidding website, many of the comments were moaning about parent and child parking spaces. It bothers me that these people make a vocation out of being nasty to parents, as if we cannot inhabit the same space as non-parents.

OP posts:
Caligula · 18/05/2005 14:33

It's puzzling - did these moaners not have parents? What are they all on?

Caligula · 18/05/2005 14:34

I mean, moaning about parking spaces? Do they resent disabled people getting spaces closer to the supermarket as well?

Sorry to pick at it, but OMG what saddoes.

NomDePlume · 18/05/2005 14:35

TBH, it does make me PMSL & in equal measure. A lot of it does smack of 'protesting too much', IMO. Of course people without kids can be fulfilled, as can people with kids. Stupid, pointless 'debate'.

NomDePlume · 18/05/2005 14:36

i think the parkign spaces thing is hilarious - what a f**king moron !

NomDePlume · 18/05/2005 14:36

parking

muminlondon · 18/05/2005 14:38

Yes, they probably part in disabled bays and moan at how old people cross the road too slowly and smell of wee.

beatie · 18/05/2005 14:38

Caligula - No, they don;'t object to disabled spaces... but parents shouldn't be entitled to any 'perks' since we have chosen the dreaded path of having children.

Can people excuse my bad spelling on the basis of pregnancy brain? I know, it's my own doing and I only have myself to blame.

OP posts:
Cam · 18/05/2005 14:39

I think its because they see having children as a "lifestyle choice" much as you might choose to have a larger or smaller house, larger or smaller car etc, and all the attendant costs/environmental issues/etc that go with these things.

However as has already been touched on in this thread, having children is not a consumer choice (although the govt seems to want it to be so)

muminlondon · 18/05/2005 14:48

Agree Cam.

Caligula · 18/05/2005 14:48

This is where I begin to feel some sympathy for the bloody pope. This whole anti-human consumerist moronic society, where we are all supposed to have been put on earth in order to buy things and make lifestyle choices, and some people choose to have a baby while others choose to have a BMW, makes me mad mad mad. How sterile and sad our society would be if that ghastly idea - children as consumer choices - took firm hold.

webmum · 18/05/2005 15:03

hatsoff

I do ahte stereotypes, but Married Single mothers do exist, I ahve felt like one since I had dd1 4 years ago, with dh working an average of 12-14 hours a week, I usually see him only at weekends, and until last year he also worked weekends a lot...so as much as I ahte being categorised, there is such a thing!!

snafu · 18/05/2005 15:03

Assume you mean 12-14 hours a day, webmum...?

Leogaela · 18/05/2005 15:05

haven't read many replies to this post so I think i may be off the discussion a bit, but this writer just sounds plain jealous to me.

'I just don't buy it' - what the hell does that mean? how can she judge someone else's emotions and experiences.

And why did she go to the dinner party in the first place if she didn't have anything in common with the other people there? And if it was so boring and her life so much more interesting why didn't she have something more exciting to talk about to change the subject.

And I am 'enthralled' by every movement my offspring makes! I'll talk about him as much as I want, I'm not forcing anyone to listen or to not change the subject.

webmum · 18/05/2005 15:08

hem..yes snafu

Caligula · 18/05/2005 15:13

Hmmm. I wouldn't deny that the phenomenon exists, Webmum, but the phrase "married single mother" simply doesn't take into account the difference in psychology, perception and status, which exists between married and single mothers. There's just no comparison imo. And it's not really helpful in defining the real problem of mothers isolated within a relationship - they're not single, they're something else (but I don't know what!)

muminlondon · 18/05/2005 15:17

I do remember it being boring to hear parents talk about their children when I had none. But agree that I don't get the chance (finance/babysitter) to bore any single people at dinner parties these days. But if they come to my house as my guests I think it's my prerogative to bore them.

aloha · 18/05/2005 15:19

I think Fairymum makes an excellent point. Lucy Seigle article implies that only childless people have other caring responsibilities such as pets (FFS!) and elderly parents. Yes, and those of us with kids came into the world by spontaneous combustion and have never seen a bloody cat. Ridiculous. And we parents have, as Fairymum so pertinently says, exactly the same rights and non rights as Lucy Seigle when it comes to our pets and parents (don't you just love the way childless people think having a child can be equated to having a gerbil?).
And actually, when childless/non-childless friends talk about their love life, their astrology courses, their hobbies and their travels, I do not think it is my right or indeed highly amusing to call them 'bores' yet it is totally socially acceptable to do that to parents - or 'baby bores' as we are often known.
If I have to listen politely while they tell me about Machu Pichu then they can listen politely when I talk about my kids for a bit. It's only fair.
I also agree with everyone that working parents aren't the ones chaining the rest of the workforce to their desks 24/7. They want unpaid sabbaticals, flexible working etc, why don't they go and talk to HR. I know a couple of childless women who do work part time and they know that the downside is earning less money. Without a pretty pressing reason, most people don't want to earn less money. I just don't see all these childless people battering down the boss's door to be paid less.
Also is it smug to say how much you love your children? I think we need to define smug here.

aloha · 18/05/2005 15:21

Caligula, a LOT of women on Mumsnet identified quite strongly with that phrase as I remember. There was a thread on it!

beatie · 18/05/2005 15:21

My very worst dinner party experience was when I was 36 weeks pregnant with my first and two mothers decided to start a banter about how awful it is to have a new baby. I sat there gobsmacked. I managed to cut their conversation dead by saying "Shall I slit my wrists now then!"

These type of people are the other side of the coin. I think I manage to fall nicely between the two camps - as do most parents.

OP posts:
bossykate · 18/05/2005 15:23

just for you, aloha

smug

? adjective (smugger, smuggest) irritatingly pleased with oneself; self-satisfied.

? DERIVATIVES smugly adverb smugness noun.

? ORIGIN originally in the sense neat, spruce; from Low German smuk ?pretty?.

aloha · 18/05/2005 15:24

One more thing! I recently looked at the website for the Child Free Association and there was a message from a 40 year old woman who was childless by choice saying how lonely it could be when everyone else has kids and different priorities.

DillyDally · 18/05/2005 15:27

Aloha, there was a thread about married single mums, but at the same time there was a discussion on the lone parents section about how they (the married singles) will never know the true meaning of being a lone parent. Do it week in week out (weekend incldued) with no support and it is a different kettle of fish - I am not saying that having litte day to day support is easy mind you.

webmum · 18/05/2005 15:29

Caligula

It was not meant to be so serious, I know there's a huge difference, it is not meant to be taken literally, but the way I've always used the phrase (before the article) was to strike a difference between my friends whose dh's or partners, got home in time to help with tea/bedtime, and the general household running, and mums like me, who get the financial benefits of a husband, and if you want the emotional support (if you can get through his phone), but they're pretty much left to themselves for everything else, from children's health problems, to leaking boilers, car services, builders, etc etc...

It does sometimes feel like you're a single mum. Surely mI can say that without offending anyone?