do you think that it's possible to have a sensible conversation about awareness re falling fertility in the light of the other thread....

[Heathcliffscathy]

sorry about the humungous thread title...

but do you think we could talk about the question of putting off career to have babies/being aware of falling fertility as you age without resort to handbags at dawn?

i know it is a terribly emotional thing for all of us (me included massively). but is there room for discussing whether there should be a cultural seachange back to having your children younger...to avoid the pain and heartache of waiting til you're in your forties to start and struggling?

Rolf - IME (also professional services environment) those kind of working hours are both rare and unsustainable ie you either go back to full time working or you quit after a few years.

Not true Anna
I don't know what sort of nanny you think people need but over here they are £400 per week ish

You don't have to earn a fortune to cover that!
I managed it quite happily and had plenty left over and didn't work long hours.

This thread has got me all again too
I really am at last chance saloon and dh and I would both love another one. It's now or never and we have to decide whether to go for ivf and I really don't know what to do.

As usual

if i were waiting until DH is ready to buy a house, I'd have definitely missed the boat! but yes, you can have a baby in a tiny rented flat and sock away all your money until prices fall further.

i had my kids young intentionally (20, 22 & 24), i've just had my third and final baby and will be spending the time between now and when he goes to school getting a degree so once he's in school i can start my career.

i think/hope it'll work in my favour that i won't be stopping to have babies or needing maternity leave. i won't need a career break when i realise i can't leave my baby with a childminder and i won't have to effectively start from scratch in my 30's/40's.

i'm not saying i've done everything the right way and others are wrong, but one thing that hugely motivated myself and dp was the fact that we were acutely aware that our lifestyles pre-kids could well have rendered us infertile and we were unwilling to find out 10/15 years down the line that kids were no longer an option... we were right to a degree too as it took 2 years to conceive dd in the end.

BonsoirAnna - you're right in that I left my job (but to relocate) . BUT, my replacement is still there 5 years later.

Sophable, Claire, CountessDracula so sorry you have this worry and sadness .

This is the best thread I've seen for ages

£400/week?

sophable - I'm sorry this thread has made you sad. I didn't realise you were in that situation and I think it's very brave of you to start the thread given your personal situation. I know lots of women (myself included) who have had our first children over 35 - those of us who've done it successfully far outweigh those of us who haven't managed it in my circle of friends so hang on in there. x

it's ok i can be sad and interested at the same time! i don't mind!

it's a toss up whether it's better to have them early, then focus on career, or get established in the career first.

A lot of people change careers, which complicates things further. I retrained at the age of 31, so theoretically, I probably would have done better to have had the kids first.

Now I'm 39, with a one year old, and don't feel I can postpone my return to work any longer because my job may not be there for me and I will be facing age discrimination anywhere else.

I was heavily influenced by my peers. I really should have had children in my twenties but it would have been frowned upon and I was very much a follower of the crowd back then.

This is very interesting. I met DH at University and we married at 25 so again no finding the right man issues. We also both wanted kids although not immediately. However, due to DH's health problems we were always going to need to go down the assisted conception route.

We went for our first appointment with the consultant when we were both 27, did the basic tests which all came back good. We started to rev up to start TTC and just couldn't face it. I had just started a career I loved, and DH was being pressured to take a treatment which ruled out TTC for 18 months so we thought we'd wait that long. We started properly at 29.

I got pregnant at 31 on 1st round of IVF but after 8 (yep!) failed IUIs so I do have some understanding of how horrific infertility can be. I'm now expecting DC2 following FET when I'm 34.

I was very conscious of timing and although I couldn't personally cope with the thought of having children in my 20s, I think there is a lot to be said for it. I also think it is unfortunate to say the least if you are in a relationship and both want children to put it off repeatedly because it is soul destroying not to be able to get pregnant and (as Mrs Tittlemouse said very wisely yesterday) the fertility treatment makes that worse in some ways because you still have hope.

So I would never tell my friends that they should have children, but do suggest to those who have spoken openly about wanting them one day that it really is a good idea if possible to start trying before 35.

Interesting thread. Especially re smallchange's questions.

I was partying every weekend until my early 30s and was nowhere near ready to give up my 'freedom' to have babies. That came with DH - married and had DD soon thereafter at 35. DS arrived last month as I turned 38.

We were very lucky that we didn't experience fertility problems but we very easily could have. Quite a few of my friends have had trouble conceiving, with several TTCing for over a year, and two TTCing for over 8 years

I don't think I said anything unfairly judgemental (huffhuff). I honestly didn't know how women could not pick up on the risk of declining fertility with age unless they maybe had learning disabilities. Thanks to those who answered my Q undefensively.

I offered to donate eggs to a cousin who had failed bouts of IVF, which was after 2 years of natural TTC. She didn't meet the right man until she was in her mid30s. That's not her fault. But she knew darn well from the start of TTC that she might have missed the boat. She's very happy having adopted now, at least.

Really interesting thread.

I think have others have mentioned its also about the impact of how large a family you want needs to impact on when you start ttc.

I had ds1 at 31 and conceived very quickly. DS2 took nearly 2 years which i was totally unprepared for and wonder if secondary fertility issues are growing as well as i seem to know lots of people who had the same problems.

But then surprisingly i got pregnant aged 36 whilst still bf and to be honest not having much sex.

It is so hard though as i look back at boyfriends i had in my 20's and really wouldn't have wanted to have children with them.

But with DH we were'nt married, he'd just started his own business and i was made redundant but we just decided to get on with ttc no1. The first year was tough though but in hindsight am so glad i started when i did.

The average salary in london is £46k (£643 a week take home)
and in the city it is £82k (£1050 a week take home)

look

I can't speak for outside london as I live here, presumably nannies are cheaper

All I am saying is that it is not true that no-one apart from women who work horrifically long hours and hardly see their children can afford a nanny.

This is an interesting and friendly thread. I don't see how saying that people who were in the dark about their fertility maybe have learning difficulties is any kind of positive contribution to the discussion.

Stupid question but what is secondary infertility?

Where you have one but then get stuck having another. It's classic for older mothers obviously because of age, but can happen to anyone.

Bumper, I feel opposite to you (re career and children).

I am absolutely delighted that I had mine in my 20s (re my career). I had only just become fully qualified. I took a little time out to spend with them (actually went back to work full time but dd was hospitalised and then ds was born and also went into hospital so just couldn't manage working and looking after them - they are both absolutely fine now).

But what it meant by having my children early is that I took a 'setback' (if you can call it that) at an early stage in my career and it really wasn't that hard to get back into it again.

I just started out as a newly qualified with a bit of experience and had to work my way up from there.

NOw I have been back full time for a number of years and am earning the same level as I would expect for my age (late 30s). The women the same age as me now who are just having kids are now stopping at a more senior level (than when I had my kids) and several have not bothered to come back to work as they are either more financially secure (either through husband or their own money) or they find trying to balance managing a large team (where part time working can be difficult) and babies quite hard.

I think there are pros and cons to both tbh but I, for one, just in terms of my career, am pleased I did it the way it happened.

and I agree with cd re the nanny

especially in London

tbh, it's also the commuting that tends to add to the hours, not only working

also a lot of very lucky people have large houses and can afford live in help like au pairs which substantially lower the cost of childcare

Ah I see, in fact I was discussing this with DH yesterday. DD is 2 on saturday and we plan to have another. Originally we were planning to start TTC at the beginning of next year then I said actually can we wait for 6 months or so with a view to having a spring 2011 baby. I know I know, it can't all be planned with such precision, but in fact DD came within 2 months of us trying.

Anyway, having spoken to some people about the fact that it can be harder second time around I suggested that we revert to our original plan of starting to try at the beginning of next year. I don't think I could do it sooner as TBH I hated being pg, hated giving birth and found the first year quite difficult and though I want another child I am scared of doing it again.

traceybath
I had secondary infertility.
Maybe because I conceived DS1 at 34 and was just that little bit older trying for no2.
I had tons of investigations and they found nothing wrong with me.
DH's sperm was a bit "borderline" - the doc said that my higher fertility when younger would have compensated for this and as I got a bit older this was no longer the case.
So maybe the problem for older mums is they can only get pg with top dollar sperm and it's common knowledge that sperm counts are declining.
Just a thought.