Dining out etiquette - what do you think?

[applemac]

Whenever I go out to eat with a group of friends I find that the generally accepted thing to do is to split the bill evenly. I don't think this is quite fair because it means that if you have had, say a main course with only two drinks you end up having to pay extra for those who have had, say three courses and have drunk everyone under the table.

Is splitting the bill evenly always fair and I'm out of touch? Or do others like me feel to an extent that it is a bit unfair? over to mumsnet

I tend to be in the split it approximately, but put in more if you've had more (and suggest that those who've had less pay less - especially if it's friends I know don't have much spare cash - to save them having to make the suggestion themselves) camp.

But I'm equally happy with pay (approximatley - no napkins!) for what you've had, and will even suggest it at times if I know the financial resources of the group are uneven, or there are people present who are likely to take advantage of splitting the bill to benefit disproportionatley.

Either way, if you can agree in advance how you're going to do it, it usually saves any resentment later.

What I do get annoyed about is the people who always order the most expensive items, and then expect the bill to be split even when they account for more than double what anyone else has spent. One particular colleague always does this, and adds insult to injury by putting in - to the penny - her exact fraction of the bill, leaving everyone else to cover any tip. These days if we have to eat out with her, someone usually manages to have a discrete word with the waiter and asks for seperate bills without her being aware of it!

I think you need to decide BEFORE the meal about splitting the bill. I am usually happy to split it, bur I don't drink on work do's and last christmas had paid in advance for meal - and was handed a £35!!! drink bill afterwards - I only had a diet coke then water, others were on shots.

Definately split the bill equally. I hate the 'calculations on the napkin' thing too. Spoils the evening. The way I see it, if you are going out for a meal with some friends, you are paying for an evening out and not just dinner. Obviously, if you are with someone you know is broke then they should pay only their exact share or if someone has been drinking lots then they should put extra money in but it is usually obvious in those cases...

actually my least favourite option is the ad hoc approximation with extra chucking in at the end of the meal - then nobody knows where they stand, who's due what in change....

Until recently I'd be the camp of slitting the bill evenly and no calculators/sums on napkins etc. But since we met a couple where the dh swills drink like there's no tomorrow (he once drank three bottles of wine at 30gbp each!) we've been a bit more stingy. I resent paying 50+quid for someone to get drunk, esp as he's obnoxious when he's in his cups. Dunno why we're friends with them, tbh. We now split the food bill evenly and do the drink separately.

I think it is a shame when people assume that everyone in the group is as well off as the others, as this assumption can exclude some people, who then avoid going out with you. Eg, I made an excuse and pretended I was not available recently for a school mums' night out, because the woman organising it booked drinks at a very expensive bar before the dinner. It was on a Thurs, and another working mother (who is worse off than me) and I realized that some of the very rich women would be ordering champagne and some of the ones who stay at home were planning a big drinking session, but those of use who were driving and had to be up for work would be having soft drinks and light meal, but end up subsidising their big night out. Neither of us felt able to raise this issue with the woman organising, but I gave her a hint later, which seems to have gone over her head. So, the consequence was that at least two of the mothers got left out.

Just wanted to say, I know mothers who stay at home have to get up early too, however, these particular mothers have nannies and paid house staff.

I think you get to know certain groups of friends and what you're prepared to go with. With one group there was a couple who always had three courses plus lots of beer and wine and extras and we always split the bill. We decided once that we would only put in what we had spent so they had to put in some extra at the end, they were shocked that it cost more than usual, yeah right because we've been subsidising you for so long!

DH and I went out for a meal the first time I met my MIL and FIL and at the end of the meal FIL got out a calculator!

I always split (or just pay) would hate anyone to think I'm tight

anchovies, that's spectacular

Did anyone see the episode of Friends that was about this? It was really interesting. I just expect to split the bill when goig out with most friends so if I couldn't afford to do that one month I just don't go. I'm the eating ots and drinking lots kind too!!

I do think it's petty to start sorting out who had what, much more civilised and mature to accept that you split the bill.

1. So you don't drink alcohol, well in most establishments soft drinks aren't that cheap you know
2. You are not only going out for the food and drink, it's all a case of going out for the 'socialness' of the event, so if you choose to have one course and a glass of tap water, then put the added expense down to 'entertainment value'.
3. No one says you have to have only one course or whatever. If everyone but you is necking wine, make up your share with an extra pudding, or if it's a place that does non-alcohol cocktails, have a couple of those.
4. If you are worried because you can't afford it, then miss the odd outing, and save up for the next one. We go out VERY rarely, but when we do, we go to a very good (and fairly expensive) restaurant. I'd rather do that than go on the cheap every week.

Maybe it is the case that birds of a feather flock together? I feel totally differently from Easy, eg I really love to be with some of my hard-up friends, so I don't mind going out to somewhere cheap with them, or going for the cheapest theatre tickets, even though normally I would go somewhere more expensive. OTOH, I really don't like the very flashy places, and would rather go out once a week more humbly. Perhaps we should organise a hippy stingy alternative school mothers' night out then and miss out the other ones! What decides it for me is that I can choose to spend less for the pleasure of seeing certain friends, but most of us can't choose to spend much more than we can afford without getting into debt just for the pleasure of being with our very rich/ extravagant friends

One time we went out with a group of people - we couldn't get there for the beginning of the meal (for good reasons - known about in advance by all for those of you who mind lateness as much as napkin-calculating!), so came in time for one course and a drink. At the end of the meal, one guy expected us to split the bill...interestingly he was the one who'd had three courses, the most expensive things on the menu and had also been necking wine all evening.

So perhaps my 'pettiness' is coloured by experiences like that and the £19 for two soft drinks episode. Yes, it's about the ambience, enjoying the company, etc, but what would those of you who are die-hard splitters do in the instance I've just described? Would you seriously take an extra £60 or so on the chin (or out of the wallet, to be more precise!)?

It's interesting to see what people think about this. I'm not a tight wad and in the past I have always split the bill and paid up without quibble, I wouldn't dream of writing on napkins, etc but there have been times when I've felt a bit peed off with one or two people who take advantage. I think that it is the moral responsibility of the person(s) who have had loads more to offer to put more in - and the problem is that a lot of people are happy to sit back and let others pay for them.

However, I take on board the comments that what you are paying for is a night out. I also agree that often when people decide to pay only for what they have had they forget some things, go home and then others are left to put in an extra £30 or whatever.

Hunker, I think if there's a really obvious discrepancy like that, then it's your friend who is being rude, not you. Especially if everyone knew you wouldn't be there for most of the meal. There are some people who are just plain greedy and inconsiderate.

But as a general rule, I stick by my split-it-and-shut-up mantra

If people behave decently and make allowances for non-drinkers/people with enormous appetites and quaffing tendencies, then I'm more than happy to split the bill. But if they're arses, I want to use a big abacus to work it out to the penny, then never go out for dinner with them again

The obvious thing is to add on 10% for service if not included, and then split the bill equally.

If your group of friends are thoughtful then they will insist that you pay less if you were the only non-drinker. If not then making a fuss yourself is not socially acceptable IMO - but not going out with that group again is.

THe £19 for two soft drinks is the sort of reason why I feel like I do, even though I agree its not socially acceptable to kick up a fuss- just puts a downer on the evening.

if you've all had a good evening, chatter etc than you pay for the company too I think, if you had a lot less than everyone else than knock a few quid off, but paying £3 extra is all part sharing...splitting the bill penny for penny is not good manners...

I agree on two separate bills for group outings - one for drinkers and one for non drinkers. Most important that people should know this will happen at the beginning of the meal, so it doesn't come as a surprise. I think if you have this rule, it comes with the implication that those who eat or drink tons more than their share should stump up a bit extra - not bill splitting, but consideration for other people's financies. And good manners.

I would feel embarassed if I was with a group of pregnant friends, for instance, and let them pay for me to guzzle a whole bottle of wine, or I scoffed an expensive starter and dessert while someone just had a cheap main course. If the people I am going out with are friends, I don't want to be mean to them. I don't take the line people are paying for the company - since when did friendship cost money?

hunkersneakymunker: I've never eaten out anywhere where splitting the bill equally would result in me taking an extra £60 on the chin.

However I HAVE paid in £20-40 on SEVERAL occasions because friends who have left early have just left 'what they owed' and when I've been left to pay the bill there's been too little money. Now THAT'S rude!!

TBH I don't care if splitting the bill for what you each eat is good manners or not - when I have no money, but have been out for a works leaving do or something because it is rude not to go, then I can only afford what I eat... Having to pay £30 for a teeny plate of salad because someone else had lobster and 3 bottles of wine seems more rude to me than splitting it fairly.

If you aren't going to drink or eat (or just have one drink and go) and everyone else is getting stuck in to a feast, then I'd probably say to the waiter, 'can I have a glass of wine on a separate bill please" - and I think that is totally fine.
If I was with someone who wasn't drinking (often me these days as I drive so much - amazingly!) or didn't eat at all, I'd put in extra and tell them not to put in so much. I'd hate to think people went home bubbling with resentment.
Otherwise I think splitting evenly is by far the most civilised way to go. If they are real friends and you will go on seeing them for years I bet it all works out in the end anyway.