I hate the expression full time parent!

[Jbr]

It is always the term given to parents who don't have a job. Well, lets be honest, MOTHERS who don't work. (Men don't get these labels do they? In fact the very idea that a man wouldn't work because he has children rarely seems to crop up anyway!).

But my point is, I saw Carole Smillie on the front on a magazine saying "Why I could never be a full-time mum" which I inferred as "Why I could never give up work" or something similar. I would hope even if she worked on the Moon 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, she would still be a "full time mum". In fact I wish she would go to the Moon and take Carol Vorderman (another woman who wishes she didn't work - believe it or not - and once said she wishes she could stay home and be a "proper" mother!!) with her. You are still someone's mother whever you are. Why do people think being a mother means one thing and being a dad means doing something else?

Sorry I just had to rant!

KMG - very well said.

Regarding the point about being a 'boring' old mum, quite honestly a lot of people can be equally boring about their job - I find that since stopping work my range of interests & activites is much, much wider. If people are boring they are boring - whether they stay at home or have the most fantastic job in the world.

One of the comments I sometimes use (depending on who asks of course, as it might appear offensive, & apologies in advance if it does offend anyone, feeling super sensitive here, even with mumsnetters) is to say breezily, 'oh, I'm a lady of leisure' & try & give them the look as if 'who on earth would want to go out to work'.

Out of interest Jenny2998, do you regard yourself as a full time wife, even when your husband is at work??????. I wonder when I stop being a mother? Is it when I leave the house in the morning or is it only when I arrive in the office?

Very controversial Posting coming up - if you don't want to risk being offended, look away NOW!

I work full time, and am the family's sole bread winner. Earlier this year, I had a whole week off work, the first time in two years that I've spent a week at home. Of course, it was sheer bliss being a stay at home mother for a change.

Instead of earning the day's wage to provide for my family, then coming home and cleaning, cooking, shopping, doing paperwork etc for them, I found I only had the cleaning, cooking, shopping, paperwork etc to do. I was only doing half my normal workload - in fact, I was a PART TIME MOTHER for the week!

I imagine it is a lot easier being a full-time mother to older children who can entertain themselves rather than a baby - or does anyone disagree?

Well, I've only had toddlers so far - and they're certainly not easier than babies. Babies have only three states = waking happy, waking unhappy and sleeping. So you just have do your best to keep them in states 1 and 3 for as much time as possible! Toddlers on the other hand, never cease to amaze me with their capacity for creative naughtiness and mess making. Anyone else know the feeling of hearing the next mess being created before you've finished cleaning up the current one?

And, from what I've heard from other parents, when the teenage years come along, you could be thinking pretty nostalgically about those baby years!

Oh Aloha - if only that were true!! My toddler who loved his mummy to bits and would do anything to please her - has turned into a 6'1" hulk with hormones big style! The problem is that they DO amuse themselves and there is no way you can stop it by hoiking them off to their rooms and shove them in the cot with teddy!! I long for those days as now I have to use my brain to outwit and out think them at every stage!

Currently I have my daughter who is 16 building up to her first prom wanting to stay on for the after-party when all the boring old farts have gone home, she doesn't drink and doesn't smoke and has a head on her I don't know where it came from, my husband who is doing a marvelous impression of something between a Saxon Warlord and a Victorian Papa who MUST be obeyed (well done Dad, way to gain teen respect!), and my son who wants a horse so badly he is prepared to swear at same male parent in sheer frustration!! So as you can see, my main problem is husband!!
Give me back those toddler days when all I had to worry about was not sleeping for months - Oh pants! What am I saying?!!!

I really object to people who put you down because you've got children and are 'at home', and it's true that going out to work doesn't always a bright person make! I just know it's right for me, but I'd never think less of anyone for doing differently. Perhaps if 'they' had to pay us for bringing up the next generation, then 'staying at home' wouldn't be such an emotive term.

Back to honing those peacemaking skills - I bet I could do serious good in the middle east the way I bring warring factions to the dining room table to compromise!!

Kia - your SON wants a horse desperately?
This is an unusual situation?
Do tell!

Is your son married to Paula?

sobernow - maybe she should look up the definition of society in a dictionary.

Yikes! Is there an 'easy' stage? Do tell me yes! Ye Gods, sobernow, you do meet some weirdos in parks these days, don't you? What a loon she sounds. I expect she was off to her job as a lapdancer or cigarette manufacturer, in order to better contribute to society

Whilst I was in the library getting some parenting books to try to come to terms with my dd's descent into the terrible twos a kindly librarian helped me find what I was looking for and listened in sympathy as I described my problems. She asked if dh helped at all and I said yes, but I don't want to put too much on him as he works all day, and she said "Yes, but you work all day too, you are a full-time teacher to your little girl" This comment really cheered me up no end!

Being a full-time mum I do feel inadequate at times, especially when people ask me what I do for a living, when I tell them they smile at me patronisingly, I've even had comments from people such as "That's not working!" and "You'll have a lot of time on your hands then won't you?" But what they don't know is that I also work for charity - so I feel that I am contributing to society in some small way. I'm also saving the taxpayer having to fork out for half of my childcare whilst I work, for I receive no benefits for staying at home.

In all the jobs I have ever had this one is the hardest. I cannot take a day off when I am sick, I cannot have a coffee break whenever I feel like it, my lunches are hit and miss and I cannot go home and just switch off. This is not a criticism of working mums at all, but I do hate it when people seem to think that staying at home is a breeze. I would never criticise a working mum so I don't see whey they have to criticise me for allegedly 'having it easy'.

Sorry for taking this so seriously, I guess it just hit a raw nerve. I have builders in at the moment, my garden is ruined, the house is freezing and covered in dust, dd has not had her afternoon nap and so is in my bed at the moment watching me, we have no washing machine for now, I don't feel like playing with dd but I must, if I was at work I would go home RIGHT NOW!

Rhubarb, but if you were at work you would be returning to your home in its present state after spending 8 - 12 hours in an office having left home at some ungodly hour. Don't understand by waht you mean about working mums beng able to go home and "switch off". Who do you think is looking after their children?, I don't know a single working mother whoe childcare arrangements don't stop the second she walks in the door.

Also, what do you mean about saving the taxpayer from paying half your childcare. Even for the few who are eligible for WFTC, the tax paid on their earnings more than compensates for the cost to the taxpayer. Of course for those who don't qualify the result is a net big big gain for the taxpayer.

Also think many of us who are in full time employment would love to be able to take a coffee break whenever we feel like it let alone manage a lunch break every day. The only time I manage this is on weekends - when I am looking afer my 2 year old.

Sorry Croppy, I wasn't referring to working mums when I was talking about coffee breaks and switching off at home, just working people in general. I know mums get it all when they go home, I just want people to understand that although we don't go out to work in a different environment, what you come home to after working is what we have done all day. Just as it is exhausting and frustrating for working mums (and dads) to come home and have to cook a meal, read 'Spot the Dog' five times over, put the washing in, empty the potty, etc, etc, we do all that too. It's just the same old routine for us day in and day out without any adult conversations at all sometimes - I even remember chatting to a saleswoman on the phone for half an hour, I was that desperate to talk to someone!

If I earn, the government contribute to half my childcare costs and I would have to pay the other half out of my wage packet. Ok, I am paying taxes on my wages, but those taxes are just paying off the childcare. I often wish the government would pay mothers to stay at home, that way mothers would have a proper choice in whether to work or not as a lot of mothers I know would jump at the chance to look after their own kids, but cannot for financial reasons. It would boost mothers' self esteem (see thread on husband being sole wage earner) and everybody would be happy! As taxes are paying for childcare anyway, why not give that money straight to the mother?

So I'm not having a go at working mothers at all. I was having a rant about working people in general (childless for the most part) who tell me how lucky I am to stay at home and watch daytime tv all the time - if you have a 2 year old you will know that it would be impossible to watch anything for more than 2 minutes! I guess I am finding it harder than I thought looking after my dd, her energy is beyond me and I simply can't keep up! I made great effort today to do some painting with her, it took me 20 minutes to get everything ready, and her about 10 minutes to get bored, so another 20 minutes cleaning it all up for her to want to do it again. Then tantrum for 15 minutes, and so on.

I am sure that a working mum's day is extremely hard and tough, so long as they acknowledge that so is a stay-at-home mum's!

Rhubarb - I'm not sure what you mean about the govt contributing to half your childcare costs. Doesn't it depend on your earnings? My wftc claim was rejected last time because I earned 3 pence per week too much!

I agree totally Rhubarb that childless people have absolutely no concept as to how bringing up children is a full time job.

I am still a bit confused on the government paying half the childcare costs but as I'm not eligible for WFTC I guess i just don't understand how it works. All I know is that I am hammered by the tax man as I have to pay my Nanny out of my net income and pay her tax and National Insurance. I haven't seen any comment in the press as to how the 1% in employees AND employers NI is a double whammy for those who employ Nannies. I know colleagues who earn well in excesss of £100k a year but are thnking of chucking it in because the Nanny takes the first £36k of pre tax income and when you add in the other costs of working (commuting, clothes, lunches) plus the stress it isn't worth it. Net loss of a woman like his giving up work is around £50k in taxes plus 2 jobs i.e. hers and the child carers. That is quite a big economic impact.

If I went to work, I could claim some of my childcare costs on WFTC, it's the government's reward for mother's working. It depends on how much me and my partner will be earning, but if we were eligible then I would get a big percentage of my childcare costs paid. But as I would be paying tax on my wages anyway, I guess I would really be paying for it myself along with everyone else. But if you are not eligible for WFTC then I guess you get nothing.

If nannies are earning £36k, wouldn't it be better financially for those mothers to stay at home? Surely it would be cheaper? If the husbands are earning in excess of £100k per annum couldn't they afford to stay at home with their kids? Of course they might want to work, but it would grate on me somewhat if I knew that I was paying £36k for someone to do what I could do for nothing.

Rhubarb, I agree with your comments that the government should provide some financial incentive for mothers to stay at home.

Dememented, why should the government give help to those that give up their careers?? If I put my job on hold until my children were at school the IT industry would have moved on and I would not be able to catch up. Why should I give up a good job? Surely the government should help those who return to work???

The £36k figure is the pre - tax earnings number as childcare is effectively double taxed (being paid for out of net income). Nannies in London get around £22k.

Well that's the point, even for high earning women childcare costs are so high that purely on financial grounds it is barely worth it. I have no need to work financially, I do so because I love it and find it challenging and fulfilling and would be miserable if I wasn't able to do it. I also need financial independence although I realise this isn't an issue for everybody.

I don't have a problem with there being a financial incentive for women who want to stay at home as long as there is an equal financial incentive for mothers who want to work. At the moment the latter take home between 20% - 60% less than childless colleagues when they work just as hard as them because of the costs of childcare.

The £36k figure is the pre - tax earnings number as childcare is effectively double taxed (being paid for out of net income). Nannies in London get around £22k.

Well that's the point, even for high earning women childcare costs are so high that purely on financial grounds it is barely worth it. I have no need to work financially, I do so because I love it and find it challenging and fulfilling and would be miserable if I wasn't able to do it. I also need financial independence although I realise this isn't an issue for everybody.

I don't have a problem with there being a financial incentive for women who want to stay at home as long as there is an equal financial incentive for mothers who want to work. At the moment the latter take home between 20% - 60% less than childless colleagues when they work just as hard as them because of the costs of childcare.

Rhubarb, I have just clicked that you have automatically assumed that the colleagues I referred to are men. Obviously they are women and that is why the childcare cost is so relevant.

sister, I believe the government is giving some sort of incentive in the recent Budget, but it is probably just peanuts (maybe someone else knows the details). I don't want to start a wild debate as you will see from an earlier posting I am supportive of mums who need to return to work and admire their ability to juggle the two. You don't see why you should give up a good job, I am not suggesting that you should, but I don't see why I should be forced to work or left to feel that what I do is insignificant in some way. I believe in other countries the government gives quite good benefits to mothers who choose to stay at home as the governments of these particular countries obviously view this to be a valuable investment. DH and I made a decision that I would not go back to work but money is not exactly free flowing, ie it was not the easiest of decisions to make, DH is not one of these 100K earners mentioned earlier. I have friends with different circumstances some of whom have gone back to work and have WFTC help towards childcare, others who have stayed at home and have their DH's income topped up by benefits and if living in council housing have been moved to better housing to accommodate their growing families and always just feel that we fall into a vaccum in the middle. I am not saying that all families should be entitled to money if someone gives up their job/career to stay at home with the children, this wouldn't be fair if the person working was a high earner but I would imagine that some families would love to have the option and perhaps the money that these families are given towards childcare (yes I know not everyone gets this but I would imagine it goes to lower earning families) could be given to them to enable them to stay at home. If I worked we would be entitled to money towards childcare but because I choose to stay at home and feel that this is important for our children I have not only lost my earnings but have also lost any entitlement to help with childcare. I don't see why the government can't just help families in general and let them choose whether this would be useful to them to pay for childcare or useful to them to enable a family member to stay at home. Anyway hope some of that makes sense.

Sister, the government was elected democratically and should therefore respect people's right to choose a different way of life. By only subsidising women returning to work (do they really though?) the message is that they are worth more than women who stay at home to look after their children.