I hate the expression full time parent!

[Jbr]

It is always the term given to parents who don't have a job. Well, lets be honest, MOTHERS who don't work. (Men don't get these labels do they? In fact the very idea that a man wouldn't work because he has children rarely seems to crop up anyway!).

But my point is, I saw Carole Smillie on the front on a magazine saying "Why I could never be a full-time mum" which I inferred as "Why I could never give up work" or something similar. I would hope even if she worked on the Moon 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, she would still be a "full time mum". In fact I wish she would go to the Moon and take Carol Vorderman (another woman who wishes she didn't work - believe it or not - and once said she wishes she could stay home and be a "proper" mother!!) with her. You are still someone's mother whever you are. Why do people think being a mother means one thing and being a dad means doing something else?

Sorry I just had to rant!

Housewife is a horrible term for several reasons, for a start it is inclusive of marital status and secondly it mentions the house, as if you are married to your house!

I never say housewife as it doesn't actually mean you necessarily have children, although I think it is rare for many women to be at home these days without children. I usually just say I am looking after my son. Forms tend to say something like 'caring for children'.

I am not fond of rigorous definitions like full-time or part-time.

PS what do you think about the mother of eight (with six different fathers who recently got a huge council house?)

I was going to mention that. Basically she has NEVER had a job from what I gathered and she keeps saying bringing up her kids is a job.

C'mon JBR, I hope you're not referring to mumsnet as being "anti women"!. I think it's incredibly supportive. There's nothing wrong with working women (or for that matter women who have chosen to stay at home) expressing guilt or confusion over their decision. If that's the way they feel, there's no harm in discussing it if only to gain reassurance from others in similar positions.

As for the woman with the large council house, I imagine that childcare costs for 8 would rule out just about any job as uneconomic.

Of course it's a job. Otherwise, what do Nannies, childminders and Nursery Workers do all day?. I work full time too Jbr but personally I think the key issue here is for women to respect each other's choices and that has to work both ways.

They are all of school age I think. She didn't have a job before them, it is like they are her excuse. And although I have nothing against benefits, (I have ended up on them myself) I don't know why anyone would want to choose to be on them. We really need a system where it actually pays you to get a job, where you are financially better off. Sometimes you end with less money if you are working, so even when you want to work, you can't!

Why dont we make it voluntary to go to school while we are at it!

Education and jobs are the key to everything. Work has to change though so it is viable for everyone to go.

Also, re: childminders etc, they are just watching the children for us, they aren't raising them.

There is a woman in my street, who mysteriously gets pregnant everytime the Employment Service/Benefits Agency decide she is due back for work. It sounds unbelieveable but it is perfectly true, I know because she brags about it!

Her kids are going to miss the valuable lesson that if you want something, you work for it. I am no better off now than when I was on benefits, but that isn't the point.

I had a child because I wanted to, I am certainly not going to pretend it was for the good of society. This woman in the papers seems to think she's doing a service, for which other tax payers should pay her!

I am curious JBR, why do you feel so strongly that all women should work?. If a woman is not costing the state anything by not working, I don't understand what the objection is.

Men do, and for years we have been told we shouldn't. We are supposed to live in an age of equality but we don't really.

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Bloss, I just want to say everyone in my house is very equal if we use your line of argument.

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JBR, not all men work. Was just reading an article at the weekend about how 100,000 men in the UK are now "economically inactive" in order to look after dependent children. I know 2 men who have given up work to look after their kids because their wives earn more or are more ambitious or whatever. I agree that we don't have equality at the present time. However, in my mind, the best way to achieve a better balance in our society is to respect each other's choices in life. I work full time and my family is very happy with the arrangement. I would never criticise a parent (male or female) for deciding not to work in order to look after their children and in return, I don't expect to be criticised for choosing to work.

Women have fought hard for the choices in their lives.

It depends if their choice not to work is made on the old sexist views. Women are in a financially dereft situation still because of these views. I don't think money is the be all and end all but I do think there shouldnt' be these differences.

Even when we do work we don't get the same wages (proving it is a different matter though!) and part of the reason is, the employers think we are all going to quit!

I'm lucky to have a job with my typing LOL!

Jbr, given that childcare remains, sadly, a largely female occupation, your view that looking after children is not work could be seen as sexist too. If unpaid childcare and other home work was acknowledged as work, more men might do it!

That's your private life! Nobody asks you to do it. Being a qualified person eg NNEB at a creche is different to what you do in your own home.

This word 'Work' seems to me to be the crux of the problem. In my dictionary it is defined as 'effort directed to an end' which to my mind covers everything, parenting included. This society, though, only seems to see work as paid employment, which is wrong. I 'work' part-time, week on/week off, and I consider my paid 'work' to be a stroll in the park compared to my time 'working' at home with my son!

Dear Jbr
Looking after children is not "your private life" but a worthwhile contribution to the needs of a civilised society. As for saying, "that's your choice", so is having a paid job "your choice".

Even when you have a job you are still looking after your children. I hate this thing that for women having a job and a private life are somehow incompatible.

I have followed the debate on this page with interest, as a SAHP who is sick of having to justify why I chose to leave my job.

Jbr, where on earth did you get the idea that working and having a private life are incompatable? I was in paid employment working up to 60 hour weeks, late nights, on call, weekends etc for 17 years and always had a private life.

At the risk of winding you up even further I have to say that you appear to be beating yourself up with your own arguements.

I can spell Incompatible, honest.