I don't love my child

[IrisMurdoch]

Hello, haven't posted on here for years. Wondered if anyone has any (kind) advice. Whilst I mostly live in a state of total and utter denial, the truth is that I have nothing but negative feelings towards my four year-old ds. I am mortified by this. I am totally shocked at what a dreadful mother I am. My life has nosedived since I had this child. I used to be happy and have a sense of purpose, now I limp through bitterly, largely aided by enormous quantities of wine.

I have just spent the most dreadful day with him. He started whining at 7.30am and the day limped on for the next 12 hours. I don't know what you are supposed to do with a four-year-old or where the fun is. Every activity I try to do with him goes wrong. He doesn't listen, he can't bear it when I try to show him how to do things. Hence playing games, painting, making things, reading etc are so fraught with tension and so utterly unenjoyable that I don't really bother any more.

I would rather be anywhere else. I would rather sit in bed for the whole day with a newspaper and the cat. I'm not interested in a single thing he says, I don't enjoy his company. There is nothing in this for me.

He's totally unaffectionate, he argues with me, he knows best about everything, he orders me about. He is rude and noisy and charmless. I am bored with telling him to speak nicely to me or putting him on the naughty step or taking toys away or threatening to call his Dad. What's the point? It's the same old bloody same old, whatever I do.

Sometimes I let him watch television for three hours at a time just so I can do something - anything - else. I know this is wrong but I need a semblance of life. It's intolerable.

I hate leaving work to get him from school, it's like I'm leaving my personality and life behind. I can't wait for him to go to bed. The weekends without him (alternate due to amicable separation) are a total joy and keep me going.
Mostly all I do is cook and clean and iron f school uniform and fake interest. It's exhausting.
I never thought that motherhood would be so profoundly empty, boring, one-sided and depressing.
I don't know what to do, I feel like I've got 14 years of a prison sentence in front of me and I'm just going to grow old and bitter. Does anyone know where I'm coming from? Is there a way back? Sorry to post such awful negative stuff, I realise most Mums find this rather appalling, that's why I never talk about it. X

Better than nothing on anywhere TSAP

The park was just across the road though, don't think I traumatised too many people, except myself!

On the swimming thing, have you thought of lessons? Those are good too - for the times when you really can't bear the thought of trying to get yourself dressed/undressed to get into a chilly and very possibly not particularly clean pool with wailing infants ...

You're implying that your DS has behavioural issues that are slightly unusual. That's perfectly possible you know, and it might be worth getting it checked out. I don't know much about this but it is possible to be on the autism spectrum - lots of people know about this stuff and might be worth looking into.

Is there any common ground you can find? Stuff that you might enjoy (or at least not loathe) together? Many is the game of chess I have had to play - usually forsaking my queen, rooks and bishops. Card games. They're not too painful for adults. Also those park things where there are a few animals or butterflies etc.

You said he liked his bike - get yourself one too and take him for a bike ride. When DD is being horribly tiresome I know it is because she physically needs exercise. She's like that. It might be that he is a very physical boy who does need a certain level of physical activity. Plan walks - borrow a dog to make it fun or maybe take 4/5 photos of trees with a reward attached to spotting them. Feed ducks.

But most of all be FIRM with him whenever he is naughty and do not condone bad behaviour. A feeble protest then just letting them carry on will make things worse. I swear that DD once had to spend an entire day in bed because every time she was allowed out she was naughty again.

One-to-one for an entire weekend is hideously hard work. Get into a routine for the weekends.

Lots of ways back, Iris. Good luck.

Szyslak - he can be very very funny. Likes dressing up, likes doing daft things, singing, dancing, making people laugh. Is devoted to his grandfather (v sweet) and other family members (except me), Loves his pets. Loves French things (!) Loves films. Loves Power Rangers and a million other things. Is quirky, bright, interested, happy, enagaged with the world.

I want him to feel safe and loved and to think the world is a good place and that there are always good things to look forward to.

I miss him terribly if I don't see him for a weekend (but then after ten minutes I think 'please someone take him away.') He makes me want to scream. It's a weird vicious circle.

ControlFF - I know it's a bit me me me. Believe me, I feel like the world's most selfish, self-absorbed cow. I know how important his emotional development is and how awful careless parenting can damage you for life. I know I have responsibility.

I tell him I love him all the time - almost too much - it's not strictly true but I think it's better to lie. I want things to change dramatically. I want to make him behave better and I want to start liking him. I know I need to be really firm and get to grips with his behaviour. Actually doing this, however, seems to defeat me. I'm mostly exhausted by work and domesticity like all of us and just want to run for the hills. Didn't think life would pan out quite this badly, is true.

Twinset - how do you CAT?

Ho hum, thanks so much to everyone, thank you for taking the time to listen and post constructive, kind things.

have a look at parentline plus website....

Good luck with sorting this out IM, I do think this is sad for you and your boy. Wise posts from Quattro I think.

I'm wondering if the liking him better will have to precede the "him behaving better"? I suspect that he's acting out in response to how you're feeling (that's not to to lay blame, btw), and that you might have to do the "film crew" thing, and seek out things to actually like about him every day, so that he'll respond to that. Easier said than done, I know, but I suspect that the other way round may be putting the cart before the horse.

What a lovely description of the fun loving side of your son. Could you perhaps concentrate on this rather than the negative side? Really play up the 'I love it when you ...... Can we do it again?' and try to ignore the bad behaviour. It seems very unfair that you have to do all the discipline stuff, while his father, grandfather, etc. get to have fun with him. Let him see that Mum can be fun too. He probably is as bored with you as you are with him! Maybe he hates swimming and educational activites - why not take him to the movies instead, with popcorn and all the trimmings. He'd probably enjoy Mama Mia if he likes singing and dancing.

A final word - at my great age and retired now, all the angst and seeming importance of my working life is largely forgotten. I wonder now why I often gave it priority over my family life. Only one of my former work colleagues has remained a good friend and I honestly have no interest in what happened to the rest of them. I too sometimes struggled to like my DDs when they went off on one but now they + the DGCs are my joy. They don't seem to remember or regret my less than perfect parenting but do remember all the good, fun times we had.

Apologies if this is a bit of a flaky idea.
I've seen site called elder wisdom circle. It's a non profit site where 'cyber grandparents' give free advice.
here

Dear IrisMurdoch,

I'm wondering whether you need to accept yourself and him a bit more as you are. Accept that you "don't love him" and stop saying you do (you clearly don't enjoy saying it - it sounds as though it makes you feel worse). (don't tell him you DON'T, obviously).
Accept that he's a boy child and thus pretty irritating in nature.
If you could clear up some of the guilt and "I must change" feelings, you might be more free to recollect and enjoy those positive occasions you mention.
If he has a super relationship with a grandparent, and a conscientious mother, he's going to be ok you know.....

By the way, I think that Mollymawk is right and a great many children would hate being shown how to do craft activities "correctly".

If you chose your name for a reason, you may find your relationship gets better as he gets older.... Iris wasn't really into infants, was she?

Iris, I have in the past had similar issues with my ds (5) and am still working through the consequences.

Some of the things I found helpful were:

1. To manage my expectations of how things were going to be. I would really look forward to seeing him after work and have a lovely image of how it would be, when in reality he started whinging at me within 30 seconds of being in the door. I now mentally delete all idealised family images.

1. To (as dh put it) "walk the talk". I did not feel engaged with ds, but by pretending to and offering a lot of affection I did not actually feel (which was rebuffed for a long time), gradually the pretense became real and eventually ds accepted it too.

1. Ds has some behavioural issues and I used to get angry and upset that he did not act like other children (he was particularly bad with other children). Part of the solution for me is that the activities we do together should not involve other children - so we go cycling or to see castles or hunt dragons in woods. I do not take him swimming - he has lessons which it is better that I do not watch. He also loves dancing and has decided to go to a dance class!

1. I am not good at playing with my children - I get bored and have to supress irritation. I find it better if I anticipate the disasters in advance - eg if we bake we will get flour everywhere and the kitchen will be a mess, and decide that I am going to live with them. It all works much better that way.

I do not think that you are alone in feeling like this and good luck.

I'm not going to talk about the potential depression as you have had really good advice on that from other posters - but it sounds to me as though you have got into a really negative cycle with your ds and it's very hard to break out of that. I went through something similar with ds2 when he was a little younger than your ds: he was desperately hard work - full of energy; would have tantrum after tantrum after tantrum throughout the day; every single thing was a battle. I would get to bedtime and feel like I'd done 10 rounds with Mike Tyson - I was utterly exhausted and despondent. Then he'd go to bed, I'd look at him sleeping, I'd cry and think "I will try harder tomorrow"...he'd get up, kick off, and we'd be be locked into the same pattern all over again. I think I hated him sometimes.

A really good book is How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk (oft mentioned on Mumsnet!). It's very American and a bit cheesily cringey but it's got some really good advice in it. Sometimes you have to pretend to be someone you're not, when you are being a parent - and sometimes, if you pretend often enough, you can get to be that person - patient and jolly and Joyce Grenfell-y Not all the time - but often enough to make life a bit easier.

And, something www said - it gets easier - they get older and more reasonable - ds2 is almost 7 now and he is absolutely delightful. I was picking him up from a party the other day and talking to another Mum about our kids and mentioned something about how if ds2 had been first I would probably have quit at one child - she looked gobsmacked and said "but he's so lovely - he's so polite and kind!" It does get better.

Could you try totally unstructured activities?

DD loves running on the beach, but gets frustrated by organized sorts of things - like why can't she go up the slide, and a ton of rules.

She's young still, so patience can be learned.

What about going for walks? Or something where he can just run wild?

I know this doesn't address the bigger issues, but at least if you aren't constantly being stressed by how to have fun with him, it may take the pressure off somewhat?

you are so brave for being so honest about your feelings but its the best way to be, I have found that people can be quite harsh and condesending on here but generally I have some excellent support and advice over the years.
I do think you need some therapeutic input for sure, and also mayeb your ex (the father) does need to consider being the primary carer for a while. is that a possibility? does he know how you feel about your son?
It might be that once you son is out of your care for a while you will start seeing positives about him and actually miss him and having the time and space without him to re-focus your feelings and priorities. Sometime we yearn for the single or childless life, freedom- financially and socially to do what we want and be only responsible for ourselves.
Gingerbread, The Parenting acadamy, Relate all offer good advice and support

I think it is tough with an only child. I watched my neighbour before I had my first DS, constantly having to play with her 4 yo daughter and saw it as a good reason to have a 2nd quick smart so I didn't get stuck with being the mother and main play mate too.

So I guess I would suggest play dates. I have friends who say to me that I could drop my two boys over to their house to play as it is just as easy or easier than entertaining their own two boys. When DS1 is invited somewhere and DS2 not I find it a pain as they are a lot easier to deal with as a team.

Reach out to the other mums at school. He must have some best friends in his class or the playground that you could target.

I had PND after DD (DC3) and I got treatment from my homeopath which has made all the difference (1 little pillule each morning - called Phos Ac, which is used to treat grieving as well), whereas I really didn't feel like talking to a counsellor or going on AD's - especially as I am bfing. HTH and good luck

iris - I agree with the others that you sound depressed. See your doctor. My third child sounds a little like yours, stubborn, argmentative, just downright bloody-minded at times but I coped fine until recently when depression hit me again - I've got some ADs and I'm beginning to pull out of the dive. He's becoming less impossible for me to cope with. Children are hard work at times but it's so sad for you to get no joy from your relationship with him. Get his dad to take him more often for a while - you need a break from him to give you time for yourself.

I hate to suggest this but could he be picking up on your feelings and that is making him so diffcult?

agree with others that quattrocento has some brilliant advice here.

You sound like a very intelligent, sensitive, caring person who has lost her way.

On a practical level, after school clubs (like cubs, swimming lessons, tag rugby etc) will help you to feel better about not doing things with him and help him to work off some energy.

Good luck with it. x enid

I like this line:

"Accept that he's a boy child and thus pretty irritating in nature. "

I wish I had a friend like Quattro in RL. Sigh. Only said friend would probably run a mile as I would drain her of advice and bucking up!

hi there i got sent this thread as they thought i maybe able to help, i completely understand where you are coming from and i feel like you really need to go and seek some proffessional help, your not a terrible mother at all just one that hasnt bonded with her child, hundreds of woman feel like you do but ninety percent never speak up because they are afraid people will think they are a freak, but your not i promise, i to had horrendous issues with both of mine and on having parent infant therapy with my youngest who is now 2 and half i realise i never bonded with my eldest who is now 6 , i was just like you just plodding on hiding it and pretending then drinking to numb out how i felt, i felt like i had a great life then she ruined it all even down to resenting the fact i couldnt just pop up to the shop etc, the sad fact is your son will have picked up on your feelings and that is probably why he is not easily pleased and can be very negative towards you,

i remember when we moved house my eldest was 3 and we had a battle of the minds for over four hours and i locked her in her bedroom while she screamed continuously, told me she hated me, whilst i took every toy out of her room even down to her duvet and pillow then sat at the top of the stairs and just sobbed and felt suicidal and like she hated me and i was a useless mother, but i see now it was because i didnt understand how i felt about her i just wanted to control her every move and condition her into being the 'good' child on the outside so that everyone thought i was a fabulous parent (even though i was far from it at the time)

the good news is its not to late, me and my daugther grow closer byt the day although its still a struggle as i had the therapy for the little one i feel she resents the positive love and attention she gets as i guess she remembers all too well not recieving it herself. but we are getting there one step at a time really hope this helps you, also dont know if you know me from her but i was on the documentary 'help me love my baby' in december xxxx if you need to chat let me know xxx

also at least you are aware of your feelings that is the first step! so well done x you need to be a bit me me me to get some help! can you talk to your health visitor or gp or if poss find a private therapist or talk to MIND they can be really helpful. not sure wht else to say really but really well done for talking about it as it must have been really difficult for you x

Oh, I am so sorry for you.

I am sorry I don't have any advice, but please continue to be truthful about your thoughts as I am sure that is the best way to get a resolution.

Have you always felt like this?

Also, have you considered not drinking? It's an depressant (I am sure you know) and won't be helping your negative thought.

You have a hug from me.

NSSA XX

Hiya kiddo,

Sometimes feeling like you have to bare all in an 'honesty is the best policy' way is the first step towards you dealing with this.

I suffer with manic depression and have done since a young age I am now 37. I also suffered with depression during and after having my first son.

I kind of know what you are saying and can sympathise too, I felt like that for the first 2 years of my sons life until my depression was under control.

Go to see your GP, it is my first stop when I feel it happening. It will be a long and sometimes dull road but you WILL get better and wont always feel like this, I know you feel like a prisoner and a really bad person, THIS IS NOT TRUE, depression will make you feel like this.

Good luck and keep being honest! x

I think you're actually blocking the love by worrying so much about NOT loving him.

I can guarantee that if you changed your perspective on how you parent and who you are as a mother, you would notice changes to your son's behaviour. He's mirroring you- not showing you affection, resenting and challenging your input etc

Accept things have been grim so far. DO something physical to symbolise a new beginning and start tomorrow with small challenges for yourself. It needn't be anything big. Swimming is a pile of shit if you don't have the patience of a saint. I frankly can't be bothered with all the faffing. Begin with something like making a sandwich together. Don't try to control the situation and let him lead... make a mess and see what happens.

Don't question your feelings towards him or compare yourself to other mums/sons- it'll only make you feel inadequate. Be the mother you want to be and not the one you think society expects you to be.

I'm just wondering.

If a woman says she doesn't feel that all encompassing love for her child, is she automatically depressed?

I know there are other things on this particular thread that posters have thought might point to depression but if there weren't - would a woman have to be depressed not to totally love and cherish her child? Maybe she just doesn't?

Meanwhile, swimming is an arse, you're right, blinks. Much better to get him enrolled in classes, watch from the sidelines and spoil him with a hot chocolate and congratulate him when he comes out of the pool.

"If a woman says she doesn't feel that all encompassing love for her child, is she automatically depressed?"

I was thinking that too, Milkmonitor.
I didn't bond immediately with DS2 when he was born and the mental health nurse explained that her job was to work out whether I didn't "love" him because I was depressed or whether I was depressed because I didn't "love" him.

The latter is surely just as likely as the former.

Hey Iris, how you doing?