Offensive/degrading to women, or all in good fun?

[Earlybird]

At the hairdresser yesterday, a woman was telling her stylist (in a very loud voice) about her company (she obviously wanted everyone to hear as clients were/are her 'target' market). She teaches classes, and does 'many private parties for hen nights, birthdays' etc.

At the end of her appointment, she gave the salon owner (who was doing my hair), a large stack of business cards and asked if he would put them in the reception area. When the woman had gone, the owner asked what I thought of her company, and whether it would be 'good fun' to place her cards up front.

The woman's business? Female only classes where students are taught to pole dance, lap dance and do 'aerobic' striptease (though she hastened to add, no one strips off completely in class).

Your opinion?

But why is doing a strip acting like a sex worker? what came first, the strip or the stripping for money? Ok maybe a pole in the bedroom could be considered in this way but a dance or a strip? I actually don't associate a strip tease in the privacy of your own home to the sex industry, as if doing this is somehow seedy or dirty. It can be sensual, sexy and exciting. I appreciate that this aspect of "getting in the mood" is one sided, but having said that, seeing my OH dressed up as a fireman making gestures about his hose is not the least bit attractive but there are things that he does that get me in the mood, romantic treats, weekends away, little gifts and surprises. Swings and roundabouts.

People are easily offended these days aren't they? If it's not the word chav, it's pole dancing lessons.
Whether women find it appropriate or are comfortable is very different to offensive. I do find the whole british attitude to sex very funny anyway, like it doesn't happen.

It's like whether people are offended by belly dancing - it's ridiculous. How can a womens body be offensive in any way?

And women who CHOOSE to dance like a stripper for fun and frolics without men present is not offensive. Some may perceive it as inappropriate though.
I wasn't aware that these classes were training to work in the sex industry though.

dittany,are you serious..?

You need to reread the initial post and see that this was about pole dancing in the form of a "girls night" at home.

Noone mentioned lap dancing, stripping or even dancing in front of the lo's...
What about drinking booze..? Surley thats not appropriate in front of the lo's BUT I bet a % of us do that..?? Oh yeah, thats onto another topic..like your point about dancing in front of the lo's..Bizarre.

Big steel pole in the front room..? Get fecking real love,its not a fire station . Do you know that some/they are removable..? AND as I said about, this thread was about classes/fun party etc.

Dittany, can I ask you something..Are you with a sexual partner..? How is your sex life.? Without tmi do you just lie there..? Do you ever initiate sex..? Obviously not as this could be seen as prostitution .

Noone against pole dancing has given me an answer to my question about ann summers parties or burlesque clubs...Come on....

but if you want to dres like a slut and act like a whore voluntarily for your own pleasure, then i think its ok.

Women who say they enjoy turning themselves into sex objects are likely to be a) lying because they're actually doing it for money which they are probably finding hard to earn through more conventional/ less degrading methods b) internalised male attitudes about women so actually see themselves as sex objects.

I think it's similar to those women who say that they are starving themselves to try to achieve size zerio dieting for themselves without acknowledging that the pressure to be abnormally skinny comes from the media/ celebrity magazines/ misogynist attitudes.

Regardless of whether or not women are pole dancing in the privacy of their own homes, in front of a bunch of other women or in a pole dancing club they are still practising a sort of titillation which was created and popularised in the sex industry which is ultimately all about women behaving like sex objects as wank material for men.

Personally I value myself more than that. I see nothing empowering or glamorous about women behaving like strippers (who are very rarely doing it for pleasure and more likely for necessity and very often to feed their drug habit/ because they have no qualifications) and I resent the message that they are sending out about women to men and to other women because this reflects back on me and my daughters and my friends.

BUT WHAT ABOUT ANN SUMMERS..? . Am I invisable..?

Come on, I want to know the views..those who are against pole dancing have you ever bought anything from Ann Summers..? Why..? For sexual reasons obviously..Adding to the sex industry...do you ever "role play" for your dh/dp..?

shhhh - I'm not wasting my time debating anything with someone that uses the hackneyed, unintelligent and unnecessarily rude quotes of "get a grip", "get a fecking life" and "for fucks sake". And your questioning of another MNers sex life is irrelevant and cheap.

you can do an A level in it now you know. It is a very serious highbrow intellectual pursuit. There is a definite art and skill to rubbing your vagina against a big metal pole.

theduchess,well don't them. Should have saved your precious fingers as well by not even posting a reply.

I forgot mn had gone so PC..

Pregnancy hormones....?

It's not offensive 'to women' because women are, believe it or not, individuals and while some of them may be offended, others will find the idea entertaining and still others will just not be very interested either way. Pole dancing among friends is actually quite a giggle and good exercise, but there's no need to do it if you don't fancy the idea.

Ho hum, here come the usual suspects to insist that any woman who enjoys sexual display or had chosen to work in the sex industry because the hours and the money suit her best, is a moron, a slut, a victim and responsible for everything bad that ever happens to other women.

WHat all the bucketheads keep on missing is that the world was not a better place for women when sex was only permitted in the marital bed and skirts all came to below the knee. Women weren#t allowed to keep their jobs once they became pregnant. WOmen weren't allowed to take out bank loans or mortgages without a husband's or father's permission. Rape victims got locked up in asylums for being febble-minded and immoral (ie there was something wrong with them or they would not have been raped). It's wrong that any woman should feel pressured into sexual behaviour she doesn't like, but it's even more wrong for women to be told that they can only have sex under certain terms and condtions, and unless they cover up then they have no self-respect and no one else will respect them either.

These classes sort of suggest that women exercise in order to look sexy.

Actually everyone should exercise to feel and be healthier and avoid lots of illnesses related to a sedentary lifestyle.

If your only goal is to attract men and you don't care about your own health, then these classes could be pernicious.

I do standard exercise classes and my DH still finds me sexy.

We do not have a pole available for me to dance round, even if I should want to. Why do men find women dancing round a pole sexy?
Most men would respond to "fancy a shag" and the pole stuff is optional really.

Exercising for the benfit of men makes you second class.
Exercise because you want to.

i think it is disingenuous to suggest that we each do not try to look, dress or even act a certain way in some part for other people

some would do this pole thing
some wouldnt

but it is a rare person who flips the bird at everyone and wears a belly dancing frock to Tesco - ....just cos they can and they want to becuase they are doing it for them and no one else.

I don't see that enjoying sexual display and engaging in it for its own pleasure means you have to do it all the time any more than enjoying chocolate means you are never allowed to eat anything else.

pmsl at the image of all these shoppers in tescos in belly dancing outfits.

i might do that...

I thought that belly dancing classes were originally taught to help women in labour as it concentrates on the pelvic area... not to get men's rocks off. You might as well say that women shouldn't learn the samba or any other latin american dances as that they are simulating/suggestion sex . Come to that feminists should be up in arms about standard ballroom dances since the woman has to be steered backwards by the man....

Confused.

Why do you have to learn to strip, dance provocatively etc to feel self-confident and get fit. There are so many ways to do that without doing it in a way that would appeal to men (cue cries of 'No, no...we're doing it to empower ourselves ). It's just so odd and makes me angry even though I feel I shouldn't be angry because that's is how life appears to be now and old overly-earnest people like me should just sit on their hands and look the other way. It's just fun...apparently.

So a great big..... Oooh I don't know ...here

madamez....a round of applause to you. . Your 2nd post was spot on..

dittany, the post that are against lapdancing gathers together those replies/answers..thats what's being implied.

YET this thread was not about lap dancing in a "club" BUT about learning it for exercise or a womans party...YET it seems to have gone the way that women are degrading themselves blah de dah.