Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

FAITH SCHOOLS! If you don't agree with them, step this way, my dears.

482 replies

onebatmother · 04/04/2008 00:12

What can be done?

It seems to me that many of us don't agree with them, and some of us (not I) are quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs.

Could we not start a movement?

It's all so wrong, really, isn't it?

OP posts:
Greyriverside · 04/04/2008 14:48

And I love that line too

"Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma">>

Sobernow · 04/04/2008 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zebedee1 · 04/04/2008 14:50

I'm in too! We live opposite a state funded Catholic school which received an "outstanding" Ofsted report. My 2 issues are 1/ that I don't believe the state should be funding schools which exclude some children and 2/ I will have to travel 1 1/2 miles to take DS to a "fair" school when there's an "outstanding" one opposite!

Greensleeves · 04/04/2008 14:51

I think I might join the campaign for secular ediucation too, I didn't know there was one.

Praying en masse in assembly and singing Christian hymns as a part of the school day is indoctrination, of course it is. It might not seem very strong to a Christian, but to a non-believer the idea of a roomful of people sitting with their eyes closed talking to an invisible entity is bizarre. It certainly has nothing to do with moral and spiritual development - quite the reverse in fact.

My children gave up talking to invisible friends when they were about 3. I have no immediate plans to reintroduce the idea to them

Greensleeves · 04/04/2008 14:54

....and frankly I'd rather my children weren't taught by adults who still need their imaginary friends.

again, for good measure.

Cappuccino · 04/04/2008 14:57

oh yes I am a really weak listener

I love to block out stuff that my children are learning that I do not like

'although we know better' is a loaded and patronising statement and I have not heard it

and greyriverside I think about 10% of parents in my school are ones I see at church. Many are from a local - gasp - council estate. I don't actually see this as evidence that they are keeping out everyone but the religious middle classes

Greyriverside · 04/04/2008 14:58

Much as I want this I see no immediate chance of it happening. I'm not sure where the PM stands, but Tony Blair now admits to being a closet catholic who didn't admit it because we wouldn't have voted for him. We went further in the wrong direction under him so have a long way to come back.

harpsichordcarrier · 04/04/2008 15:01

well, again, Cappucino your school may well be very inclusive and open to all comers
but that is simply not the case for many many faith schools.

e.g. recent survey showing faith schools breaking the law by asking for money etc

osyth · 04/04/2008 15:03

I'm in because I don't believe it is satisfactory that children of a 'faith' are advantaged when it comes to securing a school place.

Swedes · 04/04/2008 15:03

I don't object to faith schools but can they please be for the people that are true believers? There's an absolute hideousness about people pretending to be Christians in order to get a school place. It really is my pet hate. But I have to say that the intolerance shown by people who want these schools abolished is also unpleasant. I think calling for their closure feeds the problem. We need to all start making it clear that it is just hideous. People will soon get the message and it will rapidly become terribly unpopular. Anyway, if there were a God, the majority of parents at faith schools would have black tongues.

My Manifesto:

Members will not feign faith to get their children accepted into these nonsense schools.

(I'd also like the government to address the issue of village schools often being C of E.)

Cappuccino · 04/04/2008 15:09

I agree totally with Swedes

Cappuccino · 04/04/2008 15:10

oh hang on

no I don't

libidoless · 04/04/2008 15:12

I haven't had to address this issue as my children are still very young. Perhaps when they are older I will be same (although I hope a little more tolerant of others' beliefs than Greensleeves).

But right now I am a little amazed by the reactions of some of the posters on here.

There seems to be a strong sentiment that those who go to faith schools aren't paying for them. Don't they? Surely muslims/christians/jews pay tax too?? Why should all schools cater to the atheist/humanist. If you are muslim/christian/jewish you probably believe that your faith is not just for holy days. If you don't like it don't go.

The fact is that they are usually very good schools - probably if they weren't it would be such a topical issue. It does make me laugh when people feel so strongly about getting into the outstanding church school but then want it stripped of what perhaps contributed to making it so.

IorekByrnison · 04/04/2008 15:14

I don't disagree with faith schools but I think they should have to abide by the same selection criteria as anywhere else, and not exclude on the grounds of the parents' churchgoing habits.

Greyriverside · 04/04/2008 15:14

But while faith schools (many of them) have an unfair advantage AND/OR a monopoly parents don't get a real choice. The only 'cure' is to abolish them.

I don't even see why religious people want faith schools since surely the odds against it being the right flavor religion is small. Do religious people really think any religion (even one which doesn't recognise their faith) is better than none?

harpsichordcarrier · 04/04/2008 15:16

grs - yes because they keep out the riff raff

ScienceTeacher · 04/04/2008 15:21

CofE schools are not about indoctrination, but evangelism. Technically, it should be easier to get in if you are non-Christian, and this is certainly the case in many schools.

One of my vicars vicar-friends couldn't get his own child into the school that he was supporting, because they took their committment to evangelism extremely seriously. The Christian child was able to do her bit in the secular world, and a school place was available for someone who would not otherwise be exposed to the Christian faith.

I myself teach in a Catholic school, and a small minority of pupils are actually Catholic. There are more Anglicans, and more Muslims/Sikhs. The values that we have as a school are compatible with all faiths (ie Fruit of the Spirit stuff). Asian parents like our school because we are clear of our values and not ashamed of them. They affect everything we do in school. The only time we are 'religious', though, is in assembly and formtime, and Asian girls have no trouble making the Sign of the Cross.

ScienceTeacher · 04/04/2008 15:21

vicar'd

Swedes · 04/04/2008 15:22

Faith for Dressed-in-Full-Boden-ites is just a means of curcumventing the LEA admissions criteria. Why does anyone want their children to go to school with these people? I feel sorry for genuine Christian families that they have to share their school with such fuckers. Sorry for the early swearing.

ScienceTeacher · 04/04/2008 15:22

can't even get my correction correct

vicar's

It's hard being a pedant

fiodyl · 04/04/2008 15:22

libidoless schools should cater for children. children are not muslim/christian/jewish/atheist. they may be children of muslim/christain/jewish/atheist parents.the schools role is to educate the child so that when they are adults they are fully equipped to decided for themselves whether or not they wish to become one or none of the above religions

snowleopard · 04/04/2008 15:23

Not had time to read whole thread in detail, but I'm so with you onebat, and I will be checking out that campaign.

The reason all schools should cater to the atheist/humanist is that schools are there to educate, and general education is about learning and facts and reality. An education in your own particular religion is totally, totally different because it is about belief and tradition, not about the world as it actually is and can be observed. The proof of this is that there are so many different, competing and mutually antagonistic religions. If any one of them was obviously correct, it would take over. Instead, they are all belief systems and if you believe in one, you don't believe in the others.

By contrast, things like how to add up, what the capital of Peru is and and what apostrophes are for are things that we can all agree on and that are arrived at by rational thought.

I am just flabbergasted and always have been that there can possibly be such a thing as a state-funded faith school. They teach children things that are rational truths - and then they teach them things that are to do with beliefs and opinion and spirituality - as if they have the same validity!!!??? It's no wonder so many people grow up with little understanding of how rationality, logic and science actually work, and so easily fall victim to scares, mumbo-jumbo and new age bollocks.

UnquietDad · 04/04/2008 15:24

libidoless - everyone pays for them and only some people can use them. That's the point. And also they teach from a standpoint which many people would question.

Just not the case with other state services - imagine if buses, fire service, parks etc. started discriminating on grounds of faith.

ScienceTeacher · 04/04/2008 15:26

snowleopard,

I can assure you I teach proper science in my faith school.

Science and religion are not homogenous. One is about the physical world, the other the spirit world.

snowleopard · 04/04/2008 15:26

However I know a lot of people don't agree with me. Was talking to a neighbour recently and he was happily saying his kids go to catholic schools because they are "nicer" schools, even though he's an agnostic. Is he bothered that they actually tell his kids to believe in God? - no. But I'm horrified. It's one of those things that if you can see it, seems obvious, and if you can't, you can't see what the fuss is about.