My friend has just ( temporarily) lost custody of her dc..

[Ginisnnice]

As above. They were taken from the home on an order from the family court and placed with the father without warning.

She is only allowed to see them once a week, the grandparents not at all.

She says that the father has managed this as he has accussed her of " badmouthing" him to the kids and as this is seen to be harmful to the dc, in setting one parent against another, he now has custody whilst the court process reaches any further challenge.
My friend says this is unfair and the result of a mysoginistic judge.
And that her husband has used this accusation against her and is untrue.

My understanding is that there should be an independant professional to hear the dc s wishes? My friend says the dc did see someon e " but they were rubbish"..does anyone know if dc would have their wishes taken into account. ? On what basis could this even happen?

Y.

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Sorry but no kids removed for bad mouthing .

Parental alienation cases in court don't involve social services. It doesn't involve abuse or neglect or child care plans.

The ex can just take you straight to court for it. And yes, judges absolutely can order forced removal to the NRP if they think it will help form a relationship and the other parent is somehow blocking it.

Court removals for parental alienation have nothing to do with SS.

And before anyone accuses me of saying this is the case here, I'm not.

But people see "child removed" and think there must have been a Social Services plan and Child Protection and that they failed to do what SS wanted, when these types of cases bypass that whole system!

So it's not true that they are "never removed" for badmouthing (it won't be "bad mouthing" they'd call it parental alienation).

They don't need to go through social services in these cases.

And yes, proceedings at court can take a year or more. There is a huge delay after COVID for one and a year in proceedings for these cases would not be unheard of at all, some go on for longer than that.

Those of you who can't believe this sort of shit happens in family court should count yourselves lucky

12 years we were in family court, Everyone wanted my SS to stay with his Mum but she would not stick to the court orders and constantly went against the judge until there was no other option left other than the judge to give full custody to us.

My ex was horrendous, he didn't feed dd when she was with him, was passed out drunk when she called me to collect her , left her standing alone age 4 at a theme park while he went on a 'big' ride. The judge still awarded him weekend visits.

I have not read the whole thread, OP but I will say that in my experience, this can happen and that there are men out there who will use children as a means by which to beat the ex until she is broken. That it breaks the children in the process is neither here nor there to this kind of man. My ex husband was exactly this type but I was fortunate enough to have good friends to support me, who believed in me, and the money to engage a decent solicitor and barrister when required. He has never stopped attempting to get one over on me and is gleeful at any perceived 'win'.

Your friend may find Match Mothers useful and a good source of advice and support. Their website is: www.matchmothers.org/

I am sorry this is happening to your friend - please take her at face value and continue to support her.

Op it’s very clear you only have her version of events to go on, and that version shows her as the innocent victim. However do remember that courts and social workers hear both versions including that of the kids.

now it could be she is completely correct, and only his voice was heard, her, the kids, the grandparents, all went unheard. Or it could be this is version of reality. One where she will bear no responsibility for what’s happened.

either way the court and social workers and the childrens advocates have reviewed, discussed and decided that it is no longer in the childrens interests to be with her and under her care.

I would be sympathetic and non judgemental but I think it would be safe to assume there is more to this.

The sad truth is, women do it as well, weaponise their own kids. It’s not a man thing my any stretch of the imagination.

Shock horror, Women can do that too! Its not just a 'man' thing.

Shock horror, Women can do that too! Its not just a 'man' thing

Was that necessary? Because you just peed all over my experience with that comment. There isn't anything in my post that says women can't or don't do that. Do you get something out of trying to play down experience in these matters? Or just putting down people who have been in situations you can't possibly imagine?

Well our experience is that women do it too, hence why DSC live with us and she has only written contact ifand when she can be arsed and she hasn't done for years.

She is now also being prosecuted for attacking her most recent ex, that left him in hopital and needing surgery.

So no not all women are wonderful caring mothers.

Maybe people shouldn't play down others experiences either. There are women out there that would do it too.

With all due respect, I understand you are angry and lashing out but the poster was clearly not trying to pee all over your experience, she was rightly pointing out women do it too, and that there are two sides to this story and you simply cannot decide who is telling the truth simply due to gender, you have no idea if the courts and social workers are correct or if this woman is.

yes men do it, but so do plenty of women, weaponising kids is not some unusual event. You see mild versions of it on here constantly where women decide the ex can’t see the kids due to a new girlfriend

the bottom line is no one needs to pass a test to confirm they are a decent human before procreating. And not everyone puts their kids first. Men or women. In fact I’d go as far as to say it’s more common for the woman to weaponise children as they are often the primary care giver. Slagging off the father, refusing to let the kids see them etc,

so no, she shouldn’t take this woman at face value just because she is a woman. She should reserve judgement and act with empathy.

Yes, it's possible for parental alienation to result in removal despite NO involvement with social services- however, if a parent is doing something as harmful as PA to their child, there is every chance that social services are involved because of that or other issues.

However, what would be highly unlikely, is for PA alone to result in an Ex Parte removal- that would usually only be used where there is a serious risk of significant and immediate harm coming to the children if the parent being excluded were to be included in or aware of the proceedings.

There is definitely more to the case.

she shouldn’t take this woman at face value just because she is a woman

sod all to do with 'being a woman' and everything to do with being a friend. If I hadn't had the support of a friend at that dreadful time, I would be dead by now or permanently sectioned.

As for 'angry'. Not at all. Angry isn't a suitable word for what I, and many like me, have experienced. The system is very much open to abuse by those who wish to take advantage of that. And many, many, many do take advantage of that. One of the major problems we have seen in this thread is the 'no smoke without fire' approach. I can assure you that there frequently isn't even a box of matches in the same universe as someone being abused by an ex through the manipulation of children with the support of the courts. it is a national scandal and I hope more and more children, as they get older, start to speak out. There are too many judges obsessed with 'rights' without any recourse whatsoever to 'responsibilities'.

however, if a parent is doing something as harmful as PA to their child

The problem is PA is hard to prove or disprove.

Kids can say they don't want to see the other parent and it can be assumed the reason for this is because the RP is alienating them, why else would they not want to go? That's what the ex can argue. And once the PA idea has been planted, the kids words won't necessarily be believed because what they are saying could be the result of alienation (even when it could just be the truth and how they feel).

So it's very difficult to sort out. Even worse when a parent has been the victim of DV, and it can be assumed by judges that their experience of DV means they resent the ex and want to turn the kids against them as revenge etc.

It's hard to disprove those allegations.