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Original poster

Why do people imply childbirth isn't dangerous?

100 replies

SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 19:26

OK, I know that this sounds antagonistic but please bear with me.

Last night my friends' baby died as it was being born. I am heartbroken for her. She is a super-fit mid-twenties first pregnancy dream ticket. She did NCT, read up about stuff, took care of herself and the baby and as it was all text book she decided to have a home water birth. She was actively supported in this by all professionals. Trouble is there were complications and they couldn't get to hospital in time (nearest maternity hospital is 45 mins away). The baby died during a too late c-section.

I'm raging. Why didn't someone just tell her that childbirth isn't safe and encourage her to plan a hospital birth? She could have gone straight there instead of labouring at home. Then she'd have her baby now!! Instead she is grieving! Why do people persist in the idea that a couple of aromatherapy candles and some positive pushing is all you need for childbirth?

I know several women who either nearly died themselves or whose baby almost didn't make it. Now I know one that actually didn't make it.

I'm so angry. And so, so can't-put-into-words miserable for my friend.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 12/01/2008 20:34

yeah, being that far from hospital would have probably swung it for some folks, Speccie.

i'm really sorry for her loss.

that's awful.

.

WideWebWitch · 12/01/2008 20:35

Honestly, I'm right about the stats, a statistician wrote a whole book about it, she was called Marjorie Tew and the book is called "Safer Childbirth?"

But anyway, I'm very sorry for your friend, it's very sad, poor woman. And I understand that you must be feeling very sad too.

Original poster
SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 20:37

Thanks. I can't really describe how I'm feeling about it except that the whole thing seems fucked up. No kind of oh-how-sad but actually properly fucking wrong.

OP posts:
Original poster
SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 20:38

I appreciate the responses too. I know I didn't want to start an anti-homebirth thread. I suppose I just don't like the isn't-childbirth-a-breeze chat

OP posts:
Original poster
SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 20:39

Er, not the chat on here I stress, just some of the stuff you hear

OP posts:
AnneMayesR · 12/01/2008 20:39

But are those statistics adjusted for the fact that only women who have no obvious potential problems and a clear medical history are allowed to deliver at home where as women who give birth in the hospital are often known to have mega complications looming on the horizon?

muppetgirl · 12/01/2008 20:40

PLease do send a card to her, no words can touch how she feels and you know that but it's good knowing you are there should she need you.

Take her lead, go at her pace but most of all be there to hold her when she cries x

AnneMayesR · 12/01/2008 20:41

Sorry I should lay off the anti-homebirth thing so I will. Yoru friend will be in my thoughts I feel so bad for her.

Theochris · 12/01/2008 20:53

Terribly sorry for your friend SpeccieSeccie.

I guess it depends how you view statistics when people tell you home birth is safer. I don't want to get into a home birth bashing tread after all I seriously considered one myself. People who have home births though are generally speaking a self selecting group of people with low chances of complications. So generally they will have less interventions and tragic things are less likely to happen. However if this same group of women (if that were possible) gave birth in hospital you don't know that their labours would get more dangerous iyswim. All I'm saying is I don't necessarily believe that the risks are lower for home birth.

Anyway it all comes down to numbers. There is a 1 in 30,000 chance of maternal death (I'm pg again btw) in labour (all types of birth) and a 1 in 14 mil of winning the lottery and yet I still buy a ticket.

I agree it's a hard balance to strike between representing real risk and putting the fear of god into people. However none of this helps your poor friend. I feel very sorry for her, what a tragedy.

LynetteScavo · 12/01/2008 20:55

Speccie, how dreadful! Your poor friend. I can totally understand you being so angry.

However, I had 2 horrible births in hostpital, (one of which became very dangerous which made me determined to have a home birth. Obviously it takes more than aromatherapy candles and positive pushing for childbirth, but many (I imagine thousands) of babies are safely born at home each year, preventing what could have been taumatic hostpital births.

berolina · 12/01/2008 20:56

How desperately sd.

It does sound like someone should have told hr about the risks of homebirth a) that far from a hospital and b) 2 weeks overdue.

I've had two ventouse births - very very different labours, one mega-slow and one mega-quick, but both ending in foetal distress, and ds2's cord was round his neck. For those reasons I'm very glad I was in hospital, and with my history would avoid homebirth for dc3. Each time I have learnd something about how to labour 'better', and believe with the right support a 'good' labour can happen in hospital too. But I am not 'anti' homebirth.

Carmenere · 12/01/2008 21:04

Oh God, how bloody awful for your friend. 3 of dp's 5 children were home births with no problems at all but I would be more than likely be dead if I had dd at home. huge sympathy to all of you.

muppetgirl · 12/01/2008 21:06

Juat to add my 2 hospital labours were awful -1st 27 hrs second forceps with 3rd degree tear. My babies were big 9lb/10lb I wasn't listened to by consultants but this has put me off having no 3 altogether...

There is absolutely no way I could labour at home with my history. But I do have to say being in hospital saved my life. Not being overly dramatic, just stating the facts.

Shitemum · 12/01/2008 21:07

I'm so sorry for your friend's loss but I'm glad you ask the question as I have been thinking about it recently. Having had 2 babies myself, both fairly uncomplicated hospital deliveries, I am now much more about the dangers of childbirth than I was before. Let's face it, it's a life or death situation, anything can happen and unfortunately things can go disastrously wrong. There is no sadder thing or greater waste than the loss of a child.

Original poster
SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 21:09

No, I guess I'm not actually anti anyone having their baby wherever they want.

I suppose what I'm driving at is that in RL first time mothers are quite protected from the bad stuff. Who really would tell a pregnant woman about their birth trauma? I know I wouldn't because I wouldn't want to freak them. Those lucky enough to find MN are probably better informed about the good and bad stories, but others are often spun a load of hocus.

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poppy34 · 12/01/2008 21:11

speccie has a good point -mnet is a very good source of info -the good the bad and the ugly on all sorts of things. I got a far better adn more realistic view of the risks/practicalities on mn which informed my discussions at hospital etc then I'd ever had have if I'd not known about it and just relied on what I was given by gp , midwife etc

fairylights · 12/01/2008 21:12

so so sorry to hear about your friend's baby i had my ds at home (first baby) and thankfully it all went fine. looking back on it i am not sure i was really told of every possible risk, but we live about a minute from the hospital in an ambulance so i felt secure in that. But i wouldn't have a homebirth living much further away..
so sorry

Easywriter · 12/01/2008 21:16

SS - I'm so sorry for your friend and for you. These things just shoudln't happen and nothing comforts you when they do.

Muppetgirl - In your second birth you describe your baby experiencing shoulder dystocia. Just for the record beyond giving you a c-section, there is nothing that they can do for you in hospital that can't be done at home. Perhaps the only difference is that a more senior member of staff will be perfoming the same manoevers.

I've had both a hospital and a home birth and both were different and lovely. One thing that I noticed was that when having a homebirth you are made aware of the risks and when you go into labour you are (well I was)aware that you are gambling and taking a risk. Whilst there are risks you take in hospital you aren't necessarily aware of the risks you are taking.
It's a strange business childbirth and I feel respect for every woman who embarks on it, however it turns out.

Like I said, my thoughts to you and your friend.

SilentTerror · 12/01/2008 21:21

I would have died and so would my baby if I had had Dc4 at home.Statistically should have been a straightforward delivery,indeed DC3 was a water birth,but I had an abruption followed by an Emergency Caesarian,and then had a cardiac arrest on the operating table due to severe blood loss from the placenta.
Difficult to believe that childbirth can still result in death of either mother or baby in the 21st century,but it can and does.
So sorry for your friends loss though.

morocco · 12/01/2008 21:22

very sorry about your friend's baby

it's so normal to feel that anger and want someone or something to blame, perhaps things would have gone differently in hospital, the saddest part is your friend will probably always wonder that, but perhaps the outcome would have been exactly the same .

I felt so sorry for the families of those 2 women who died over Xmas after giving birth in the same hospital. life is cruel at times and nothing is risk free.

very for your friend

DaphneHarvey · 12/01/2008 21:40

Your poor poor friend Speccie. Am so sorry. How devastating.

(Am almost certain she will want you to ask lots of questions about the baby and what happened and acknowledge the birth etc. I nearly lost my baby at birth and what I fervently wished for when we didn't know if she would make it or not was just that she might live for a few seconds so that he/she would have been "here" and lived for a few moments so that the whole experience would seem more real to me and everyone else. Sorry, not explaining well, but have gut feeling your friend will want to talk a lot about her baby, if you can possibly support her.)

Original poster
SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 21:45

This thread is helping me. Thank you all. I'm still pretty crazed about it, though.

SilentTerror, I think you've hit it right with how hard it is to believe that anyone could die in childbirth now. It seems archaic, like dying from toothache or something. But it's not like that at all. So many women have horrific stories, so many near-misses, yet we keep it from new mothers. I'm not sure whether that's right or wrong, really. I don't want to make people utterly terrified but the 'imagine you are walking through warm waves on the shoreline' (direct quote from my NCT class) doesn't actually cut it.

OP posts:
muppetgirl · 12/01/2008 21:47

Easywriter - good to know but I didn't think midwives at home did forceps? Also this was done under spinal block that isn't available at home. I also didn't think they could sew up a 3rd degree tear? Surely this procedure cannot be performed without adequate provison to 'mop up' afterwards?

Original poster
SpeccieSeccie · 12/01/2008 21:48

Daphne - I will do just that, thanks for the advice and I think can understand about needing the baby to have been a 'real' person and been here as you described. How horrible for you to have come so close.

OP posts:
Frizbe · 12/01/2008 21:52

very sorry for your friend Speccie. I'm sure you'll be a good friend and be there for her whenever she wants to talk.