My family might be headed for disaster...

[tootiredtoocare]

It came home to me today when my DF went off into one of his regular low-key rants about 'woke culture' and 'box ticking'. Talking about Jim Davidson's Youtube channel and how they talk about 'anything that isn't woke', how 'wokeness' is killing our culture. I almost cried. I can't believe my DF is such a bloody gammon. He is an intelligent man, and we were brought up to be aware of current affairs, to read, we knew how to use encyclopaedias before most of our friends knew what they were, he put the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists into my hands when I was 13. Although I have disagreed with him about a lot of things, I've never worried about his opinions the way I do now. The disaster I think is coming, is that my DB, SIL and their DC are coming over from where they live abroad to spend most of August with us. They'll be staying at my house but obviously we'll spend a lot of time with DPs. Where I can just cut off from my DF, which I often do for the sake of DM, my sanity and my relationship with him, my SIL definitely won't, and DB will back her up, as he should. SIL is very opinionated, a strong feminist, and not being British has an insight into British culture we don't have. Both she and DB are even more left wing than I am and I'm firmly left. Do I sit my DF down and tell him he needs to shut up and avoid political discussion with her? I'd feel like I'm talking to a teenager, and I shouldn't have to parent him. Other option is to have a chat with SIL and DB and prepare them for him being the way he is. Either way, I'm really concerned that things will blow up. It will break DM's heart, she's so excited about finally getting the whole family together.

agree with @kilm 100%. It's like any human interaction becomes a chance to rant at someone else particularly if they know their political views may diverge.

There's a level of compassion and understanding involved in avoiding certain topics if one knows they will spark off a debate or even make someone else feel uncomfortable, because they often do it on purpose and are deaf to requests not to. There's a level of pigheadedness and also baitingness about it. Fair debate is all fine, but all involved have to be willing participants. Not everyone wants to listen to a rant / lecture or even have an active debate about wokeness in a supposedly benign family gathering. To expect others to listen or debate when they don't want to is rude and insensitive, controlling and baiting behaviour.

This is why it's probably good to have parents who aren't right on. You're not so disappointed in them.

I'm sure it is disappointing, but it's far from unusual for people to get more right wing and socially conservative as they get older.

Yikes, I feel for you.

I feel really disappointed that my dad's drifting into this 'Oh "Wokeness" is so terrible' thing. He's right wing but always been very intellectual and thoughtful (and hates prejudice about race, sexuality, gender etc because he thinks it's stupid) it kind of embarrasses me that he's lowered himself to such a lowest-common-denominator thing (though I think he'd draw the line at Jim Davidson at least!). My sibs and I are always a 'keep it light, shrug it off' in attitude because we like our parents and want to get on with them but my DH is much more argumentative and although nothing's happened it person, they've had some spats on Facebook, which makes me a bit unhappy. I think I maybe need a word to DH that in our family household we don't pick fights (the opposite of his) so I'd prefer him to try and shrug it off like we do if DF makes any 🙄about 'wokeness'

Honestly, I’d let it blow up, if it’s heading that way. He’ll look like the complete twat that he is. Don’t protect him. It seems like your SIL is a strong woman, backed by your brother, so she’ll wipe the floor with the Jim Davidson wannabe. Your mum should face up to what she’s living with and accepting in a husband. They’re staying with you so you can all get on without him if he wants to be an idiot. Your mum can join you and leave him to his youtube videos. You don’t have to take on the peace keeper role.

Oh dear a lot of dismissiveness here. Having seen relatives (mum included) change for the worse with age, I understand your regret for your dad.

I'd talk to both sides beforehand. Tell your dad to tone it down and your brother to plead for tolerance with his wife.

Yes they're grownups but - newsflash - grownups aren't always great at sorting out their differences either.

A lot of us?

Who is ‘us’? And the ‘we’ that don’t experience micro aggressions? Or are you suggesting that only happens to people in Britain who were born here?

who exactly are you speaking for?

Your don’t have to be not British and live outside the country to know there’s racism. So her insight means nothing.

and she hasn’t been here for years?

Right wing and socially conservative doesn't equate to racist and sexist. I speak as someone who's never voted Tory and would consider myself left of centre politically.

hhhmmm…where did they mention sexism and racism?🥱

I understand OP. My brother in law is a really great guy but his political views are very, very different to mine and I cannot stand them. My DW is a very strong minded woman who loves a good “debate” but in a family setting it really, really stresses me out. We all have an unwritten rule that we simply do not talk about political issues at all together. Ever. That’s what you need here - any chance of just asking that of them? You can be neutral in the request with each of them because your request is nothing to do about your political views at all, it’s just a call for harmony. Say it’s for your mum!

I understand too. I used to get really stressed about my mum making racist comments. Half the time I don’t think she even knew she was being racist. Sometimes she definitely did and would be livid to be called out on it. My DH just cN’t stay quiet, which I kind of admire. He feels that silence is siding with the racist. It’s very stressful. I hope you find a way through ok.

I think a lot of people of my parents generation, including 'right wing' ones like my parents are not racist or sexist in an overt sense and deplore that sort of behaviour.

But what they don't really get sometimes is the idea of the problem on the imbalance of power that perpetuates prejudice and disadvantage. I didn't used to get it but I started to understand it when I was not too set in my ways - I did used to think you could have 'reverse racism' and 'reverse classism', but now I understand those are Not A Thing, but it can be harder for some older people to get their heads round that.

They feel 'wokeness' is just being 'unfair' towards men, or white people, or straight people and accusing them all of being bigots - again, in the days it was called 'political correctness' I felt that too, I felt I was being targeted and called a bad person when people talked about whiteness or privilege. But I get now that it's not personal - it's about structures, not 'bad apples' and not shouting abuse or attacking people - no one's actually saying people are bad for being white or male or straight. They're saying the system's bad and everyone needs to stop perpetuating it. But it's easy for people to take it personally, especially if they're used to things being a certain way.

I'd like to have this conversation, privately, with my parents but haven't found the right moment yet.

it is still a free country and he is entitled to his opinion . Does not make him i
right , but also

does not make you right either .
you seem just as narrow minded .

by all means suggest he avoids politics as a subject , just because sometimes that is a sensible thing to do . But please don’t disrespect him .

@tootiredtoocare I have the same happening with my parents and it’s hard.
i feel that the last two years have made them much more intolerant and angry, even my mum who is normally levelled headed.

We also come from different angles/country which doesn’t help either.

I’ve done the trying to ignore (like you) and standing my ground and I find both unsatisfactory tbh.
So I don’t have an answer to that.

The best you can do is warn your dbro and SIL and maybe remind them that a ‘strong discussion’ might well not be accepted anymore :(:(
Things change, parents get older and in reality, much more set in their ways.

he and my SIL are very stubborn and fiery and will be at loggerheads, as their positions are pretty much polar opposites. Ah right, so only one of them being stubborn and fiery us ok, because they think like you?
Think like you, stubborn and fiery= fantastic! How amazing!
You disapprove of their 'wrong think', stubborn and fiery= bad, very bad intolerable?!

Well said .Why do people have to gereralise to make a point?

It’s like saying all Labour voters are working class and all conservatives are rich . It’s simply not true.

Don't forget 'a gammon'.

Btw i don’t think you are narrow minded at all.

I suspect your reaction would be different with someone you don’t know.
The issue here is the fact that you have someone who raised you in a certain way who now think very differently and it clashes. It cashes with the very values that he as taught you. And with the image you had of him.
it’s hard to reconciliate all that.

@Echobelly you're probably right, I think he's feeling slightly under pressure that 'wokeness' is telling him he's 'privileged', just for being who and what he is. Of course, also breaking that down into 'white privilege' and 'male privilege' and I can honestly see why he feels attacked. What annoys me is that he shouts me down when I try to explain what is actually meant when those terms are used (something I had to look up, which I probably did for the same reason, why am I 'privileged' just because I'm white). I don't think those terms are helpful.

My mum and I both think that OTT wokeness is tiresome. I read the Spectator, Spiked and UnHerd and have just bought a book by Douglas Murray. I think JK Rowling is a hero.

The other members of my family are all champagne socialists who would baulk at ANY of the above, so my mum and I just don't talk about any of that stuff with them.

FWIW I'm a 33 yo woman, not all people who are critical of woke culture are "bloody gammon". This is the huge problem with "the left" at the moment, they are seriously intolerant of any other views but their own!

Just gently steer the topics away from flammable ones and accept that we aren't all cut from the same cloth. Thank god, because wouldn't the world be boring.

So why do you engage op. Why don't you just turn the conversation to the garden, the weather, the football. There's always a ruck to be had if you want one; there always a way to avoid a ruck if you want to.

I don't think some folk understand what OP means here. Right wing youtube is borderline fascist. It's worrying and has caused massive brainwashing which has caused a whole lot of harm across the US and the UK.

I think they understand only too well.

Is your SIL so incapable of staying away from hot 'feminist' topics on this rare event when she is visiting her in laws? Do you beleive it is so essential to talk about politics at all occasions? From everything you said it looks like you are artificially trying to invent the conflict