My family might be headed for disaster...

[tootiredtoocare]

It came home to me today when my DF went off into one of his regular low-key rants about 'woke culture' and 'box ticking'. Talking about Jim Davidson's Youtube channel and how they talk about 'anything that isn't woke', how 'wokeness' is killing our culture. I almost cried. I can't believe my DF is such a bloody gammon. He is an intelligent man, and we were brought up to be aware of current affairs, to read, we knew how to use encyclopaedias before most of our friends knew what they were, he put the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists into my hands when I was 13. Although I have disagreed with him about a lot of things, I've never worried about his opinions the way I do now. The disaster I think is coming, is that my DB, SIL and their DC are coming over from where they live abroad to spend most of August with us. They'll be staying at my house but obviously we'll spend a lot of time with DPs. Where I can just cut off from my DF, which I often do for the sake of DM, my sanity and my relationship with him, my SIL definitely won't, and DB will back her up, as he should. SIL is very opinionated, a strong feminist, and not being British has an insight into British culture we don't have. Both she and DB are even more left wing than I am and I'm firmly left. Do I sit my DF down and tell him he needs to shut up and avoid political discussion with her? I'd feel like I'm talking to a teenager, and I shouldn't have to parent him. Other option is to have a chat with SIL and DB and prepare them for him being the way he is. Either way, I'm really concerned that things will blow up. It will break DM's heart, she's so excited about finally getting the whole family together.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea he believes the UK is not racist because he doesn't hear anyone using racist language any more. He's white and doesn't believe the subtle racism that exists, does. He believes we should have an Australian immigration system and thinks sending asylum seekers to Africa is a good policy. He completely ignores that my SIL wouldn't have been able to live and work here under the Australian system. He's sexist, something I've come to realise over the past few years, and I've pulled him up on it but he doesn't see it as sexist. Example - he showed me a Youtube video of a pretty redheaded girl who'd done the same song harmonising with herself, the video was a split screen of her doing each part. I found one of another, older, woman I've been following doing the same thing only with various instruments as well as singing, and he immediately turned his head away, saying, well at least this girl's good to look at. He doesn't understand or accept the importance of representation, though I've literally shown him it in action.

This baffled me too.

She isn’t British and doesn’t live her. She doesn’t have insight. She has an opinion.

I am half Indian. I don’t live there. Have visited. I am not so arrogant to believe I have a special insight into the country and it’s people. I can have an opinion, but that opinion can extremely flawed as I don’t live there and didn’t grow up there.

You speak of tolerance and call him a gammon? Yet won’t share anything that he actually said.

You are hugely blowing this out of proportion. It isn’t up to Police your parents relationship with your Brother and his wife. My dbro and Sil can be very difficult. They were particularly difficult with my mum. I kept well out it as to not cause further problems so they could at least have a civil relationship. Mum died last year and I am glad I kept out it. She at least had a decent relationship with her grand parents.

I think you really need to take a step back.

I agree.

We need some more examples of his unreasonable behaviour. He likes a very well-liked comedian, and doesn’t agree with woke culture - like millions of others in the country 🤷🏼‍♀️

Blimey, this thread escalated quickly! 🤯

OP, I'd talk to DB and SIL and warn them about the kind of conversations that have been had lately, and also maybe politely request from all that certain subjects be kept to a minimum so you can enjoy your time as a family. Is it possible that your DM might be asking him to chill a bit while the family are together, for the sake of harmony? I'm sure mine would.

Not everyone will think alike and that’s what makes for a diverse culture. You may wish to live in an echo chamber of your own making
but hopefully DB and SIL will enjoy lively debate and not be arrogant, believing they know best.

God when did the left get so intolerant? It’s quite frightening.

You do sound a touch priggish. I’d probably pretend to be a fan of Jim Davidson’s YouTube channel to annoy you, tbh…..

The only thing guaranteed to ruin your family's visit is you micromanaging what other adults think and talk about. No one died and made you the PC Police, and you sound every bit as intolerant you claim your father to be.

Leave everyone alone and I'm sure they can handle their own affairs and conversations.

how ott is this

we all have different opnions thoughts but how does your sil not being british make her more understanding than us

Bloody hell I bet your a barrel of laughs at parties!!

I get it OP, and I'm surprised so many people don't. It's not a difference of opinion, it becomes a fundamental mismatch of values about things that are really important to people, and tempers can flair so easily. My BIL no longer speaks to my FIL (his Dad) because of a similar problem - and in similar circumstances where they've never agreed politically, but got on along just fine as adults until the last couple of year, but as he's got older FIL's opinions have become particularly nasty and there is now no reasoning with him or putting forward an alternative viewpoint. I think I would talk to SIL and brother something along the lines of "you'll never believe the stuff Dad is coming out with now" and use that as an opener where you can all agree to keep the peace for your Mum's sake.

I can see why you want everything to be nice, given the infrequent visits but if you get stressed out and worked up that'll bring about what you're worrying about more than likely.

Having said that, you could have a word with your dad. I got absolutely sick of my MIL ranting at me about her various opinions on current affairs and society that FIL, I suspect, eventually told her to stop it. Of course she's entitled to her opinions but it did make for some pretty stressful visits.

Your SIL may enjoy arguing with him, of course.

I enjoy arguing but I always felt I couldn't give as good as I got when it's my husband's mum.

So he enjoyed a singing video and you found a 'better' one?

Loads of people think we should have a points based immigration system. Including my own immigrant husband.

How come your SIL wouldn't qualify if she's so intelligent and married to a British man with whom she has children?

SIL lived and worked here for 7+ years. Her insight is because she has experienced the little, seemingly insignificant, intolerances against immigrants/foreigners. I'm not saying this is particularly a British trait, I know they've experienced similar in the country they now live, but I am saying that a lot of us think that there isn't any racism because we know better than to use racist language and we're (generally) not racist as individuals against other individuals. There are, though underlying currents and micro-aggressions we're not aware of simply because we don't experience them, whereas SIL, and others I've spoken to, do. My DF doesn't accept this, even directly from her, he always has an excuse or a reason that she mis-read the situation.

DD and I had to remind DH that comments about men holding hands in Brighton might not be welcomed and not to say anything..his filter is disappearing along with his memory...🤐

'gammon'.. I can't take anyone who uses ridiculous, lazy catchphrases, like Karen's and gammons, seriously. Just a way of avoiding being genuinely.open to discussion & acceptance. You sound immature

I can see peoples points about being tolerant other peoples views and 'thought policing' but to just play devils advocoate here... i have a family member, and my partner has a family member who are like this, and the problem isnt that i disagree with their views (even though i do)
The issue is that both of these people (and every other person i have met like it) cannot take a hint when to move the conversation along, or cannot recognise when it might not be an appropriate time to discuss these things, or cannot recognise that as they are in a room full of people who dont share their fews its pointless to keep (repeatedly, over and over again) bring these topics up! Even if you dont respond (as you cant say anything other than 'i dont agree with that/thats factually incorrect' and you're trying to kerp the peace) or if you change the topic they will find a way to keep bringing it back round to topics, but then if you do enter into discussion they just want to rant and for you to agree, they arent interested in factual evidence or any kind of reasonable explanation... im sure not everyone who holds these views is like this though so please dont take me as saying they are all the same. Unfortunately in my experience this is the situation though, and i would 100% warn your relatives so they were a little prepared.

think you are moving further left , farther away from his leanings, he probably knows it and does it to annoy you. think you are becoming the intolerant one using terms such as gammon

The world has left him behind? Did you miss the fact that the Leave campaign won over Brexit, we've not had a Labour government for 12 years and Trump was President of the US and apparently stands a chance of being re-elected next time? You sound just as bad as each other, frankly.

You sound very frustrated with him for not sharing your opinions. Avoid the topic or accept that if you goad him he will give you his opinion. This doesn’t sound one sided from what you’ve written.

@QuillBill 1. He literally turned away from the video upon seeing that the woman was older and not pretty, without even listening to her talent. 2. They weren't married when she first came here, she's from outside the EU, and she didn't have a skilled job. She got her visa because she was employed by a British company, but it wasn't a permanent contract. They got married after she'd been here 5 years and then they went to live in her home country as she wished to be closer to her mother when they had children.
@AtticAttack3000 @Phineyj thank you for getting the point. I am disappointed that his opinions have changed so much and in some cases are at odds with the values he brought us up with. However, this is more about the fact that both he and my SIL are very stubborn and fiery and will be at loggerheads, as their positions are pretty much polar opposites. They're probably more alike than either of them would care to admit. My DB will always support his wife, and I would expect that. I'm really worried that it will cause a rift at a time that should be happy and we should all be enjoying the time we get to spend together. I do feel I'm going to have to put buffers in place.

Agree

OP you're really playing into the narrative of the "intolerant left" here. He's allowed his political opinions, same as everyone else. That's how it works in a free society. You can respect other people without agreeing with them.

I'm not intolerant. I'm disappointed that, seemingly with age, his opinions have changed to the point where they're at odds with the values he brought us up with. This is a man who put The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists into my hands when I was 13, who was a union rep, who was a member of the young communist party ffs (I know, that's extreme). He went on strike in the 80's in support of the miners. He was a strong socialist. Now he's quoting Jim Davidson. I was a real daddy's girl. It's hard finding that your heroes have clay feet.