Do You Write or Think? Mr Nietzsche's Assessment of Your Dilemma.

[onebatmotherofgoditschilly]

I had forgotten this:

"The literary woman, unsatisfied, agitated, desolate in heart and entrails, listening every minute with painful curiosity to the imperative which whispers from the depths of her organism "aut liberi aut libri [either children or books]."
?Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols

Ten years ago I would have turned the page with a sigh and a sneer.

Today...?

gets out copy of The Yellow Wallpaper

I think it just boils down to the simple practicality of opportunity to me.

Although I would agree with Anna8888 that my children have given me another element of creativity in my writing. But I just don't physically get to do it as often as I'd like, and often have found myself too spent by the end of the day to attempt it.

"I shall see myself, I shall read myself, I shall go into ecstasies, and I shall say: ?Is it possible that I should have had so much spirit??"

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Ah, now you see, I identify with that - read something I've written and thought 'Blimey, was that me?'

And remember that he was just as scathing and contemptuous in his remarks about men. I don't know anything about his views on women. I want to find out now! But I suspect the quoted remarks could well be a comment on contemporary society rather than on femaleness as such.

SueBaroo - write in the morning . Café, croissant, two hours of peace and - presto .

Anna8888, yes, actually, getting up before the crack of dawn has been useful before now. I might give it a go again.

Ponders the delightful image of a two hour lounge in a cafe with a croissant and a coffee

I would just end up reading the papers

no no no no no

I did the module on him last term

I passed

tis enough I tell you

Wondering if was the inspiration for certain childless childcare guru types.....

(must admit to having a few things published pre kids in journals etc BUT I will have time again one day, and less 'formal' essay writing to do, and a lot more life material to utilise as well)

(threadworm have a couple of his books going spare I can post if you want to CAT me)

Thanks Peachy. I have quite a lot of his books, but 'the imperatives whispering from the depths of my organism' (aka Ds1 and DS2) have kept me away from them. Hence my desolate entrails.

Hence my desolate entrails

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My new book title

Actually, come to think of it, I have plenty of time for books:

"The literary woman, unsatisfied, agitated, desolate in heart and entrails, listening every minute with painful curiosity to the imperative which whispers from the depths of her organism "aut Matronnet aut libri [either Mumsnet or books]."

lol threadworm
Matronnet - the world's best mithering site.
Haven't read the thread yet. Called away last night by vomit.

Desolate in their entrails? Did he think babies come out of ladies' bottoms.

Lol at 'called away by vomit' -- whispers from DC's organism? Desolate entrails indeed.

(I mean, I assume he was meaning to refer to the empty womb of the literary woman)

Actually I don't know enough about Nietsche's work to make any very sensible comments on these words as he may have meant them in context.

But, I do think that although one's ability to undertake creative or intellectual projects is likely to be compromised while in the charge of small children, overall, one's understanding of language, psychology and many other things pertinent to literary creation are all enormously enriched by the experience of having and rearing children.

I'm looking forward to 50 myself.

I quite like the entrails bit! I read it as guts, which seems to take the question seriously, at least.

Cappuccino, I suspect Eloise is sorting the socks that the cleaner has already ironed and folded. Eloise will then be placing them neatly in each child's linen-press and awaiting the purr of the peoplecarrier, which signals the safe arrival home of her darlings, and is always followed by the squeak-slump of Magda- the-au-pair's birkenstocks as she ushers them into the large basement kitchen on whose rustic table Eloise's vivid arrangement of wild flowers (grown in her kitchen garden) sits in a chipped cream pitcher.

I don't like Eloise much, I've realised.

V. much agree with your penultimate paragraph, Iorek. (Apart from anything else and there is much else how much excellent children's literature like Pullman's has the experience of parenting at its core.) The magical months of witnessing my children's language acquisition were incredibly enlightening: made me think often of Wittgenstein.

excellent children's literature

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My goal for the end of this year! Not kidding actually, although I'm not calling it a resolution, because that would tempting idleness.

Oh gosh, I thought that desolate entrails meant churning guts (which are appalled at the choice that they were going to be called upon to make)?

Rather than the empty womb of the literary woman (who has already made her choice)..

Hmm.. perhaps you're right Iorek. That would be rather patronising..

Nietzsche and The Desolate Entrails will be my new band. When I'm fifty.

Perhaps by then it will be compulsory to be fifty before forming band?

DS1 and DS2 (15 and 12) were having a chat as they unloaded the dishwasher last night.
DS1 'Don't stop just to talk, keep unloading!'
DS2 'I'm not a woman!' (and thus unable to multitask).

Why creativity/books or children? Didn't women multi task in Prussian Saxony in the 19th Century? tut

Neitzsche seems to have been obsessed with his churning guts since he often used them as metaphor: e.g., something like 'the neurotic man is like the man with indigestion: he can never have done with anything.'

--i.e. (I suppose) his anxieties and self-doubts keep repeating on him, like raw onion after a salad.

Threadworm - Continentals and their bodily functions.