Urgent! Advice needed - moral dilemma

[titchy]

This is nothing to do with parenting or children so I hope you all don't mind my asking for advice.

I stupidly got a parking ticket a couple of days ago, but the warden wrote out my car registration incorrectly. Hooray I thought I've got away with it, but now I'm having guilty thoughts of some poor so and so who will be getting rude letters in a few weeks threatening him/her with a thousand ound fine. The car is only three years old, so the person who gets the letters will have a fairly new car too and if they can afford a three year old car then maybe they'll be able enough to argue that it wasn't them, or maybe the incorrect registration doesn't exist.

I know I'm trying to justify not paying and grasping at straws, but dh says I'd be silly to pay when I can get away with it, and most people would take advantage. I'm feeling a little guilty though.

What would fellow M'netters do?

Thanks!

Titchy

Thank you all for your advice, particularly icanreallyhelp. I wonder who you are.....

I have decided to take the middle ground, as I so often so in these situations, and write to the Council saying that as the ticket was incorrectly issued it is not valid (Willow2 - I hope you're right!) and therefore I will not pay. At least I know that some little old lady won't get a demanding letter. If I lose the appeal they will at least allow me to still pay the lower charge.

Interesting dilemma though.....

Isn't doing something like issuing spoof tickets illegal? It could be really upsetting surely? If it's not illegal then it should be!

Wonder if you all can help me with my 'quandry' of a similar nature? (Have changed my nickname for this one...)
I recently got a statement from my ISA provider thanking me for my recent investment into my ISA - only thing is I hadn't made an investment!
But its definitely been credited to my account - obviously someone entered the wrong account number.
So what should I do? Part of me thinks - "this isn't my fault - I should just keep 'shtum'(or whatever the word is) until they find out (if ever), but on the other hand I feel guilty not saying anything.
Strangely, a friend of mine who works in a senior role for a very large bank said "oh don't say anything - count yourself lucky - it's not as if another individual somewhere will be out of pocket (when they realise their account hasnt been credited) the bank will just pay up, but they won't trace where the money was credited instead...
What do you think? Is the £ amount relevant do you think (e.g. is the decision different for £100 vs £1000)?

same dilemma whatever the amount. Fess up, I think! After all, banking errors add to bank charges, insurance costs etc. It's the consumer (or the shareholder, which in the case of banks could be the little man too) who pays in the end, believe me! That's just the practical argument. the ethical ones could go on for pages......

Well......The person whose account it should have gone into won't lose out, so no worries there.

Personally I find all these financial statements so confusing so I'd be inclined to feign ignorance if anyone ever catches up with you, or say 'what letter'. Legally I think if you spend the money without knowing you got it by mistake it's yours, it's only when you know you shoudn't have received it that you have to give it back, if found out of course.

I think I would keep stum for now and see what, if anything, happens. But don't count on the money for something. if you've still got it after, say a year, then great - go spend!

I'm sure I heard a story a few years ago where someone had actually been sent to prison for accepting money into their account that they knew wasn't theirs. It was a very large sum and they spent it. I don't know how true it is. You could just not do anything about it for now and see what happens - but make sure you don't use the money.

I had some money credited to my gas account by mistake so I rang them (I do have morals after all) and they said that it would be left there unless someone else missed it and it could be proven that it belonged to them. The money mysteriously disappeared off the next statement without any explanation!

I think in this case I would have to speak out and give the money back.
Strangely enough, my 3 year old shoplifted a peter pan dvd the other week. must have popped it into the pushchair basket while I wasn't watching and I found it when we got home. I'm taking it back next week. We haven't even got a dvd player (not that this has influenced my decision!)and I'm always a bit superstitious about what goes around coming around. Having said that, I would definately not pay the parking ticket!

OOO icanreallyhelp, that was fantastic, thanks!!!

With the money thing I probably genuinely wouldn't notice for a while if say, an amount hadn't gone into my account and should have - i.e if I was the person who should have had the money, so I'd have to rely on the person who actually, mistakenly, got my money to confess so it was corrected. (take ages to get around to checking statements or anything). I don't know if I'd own up on this one, but it's a bank that's cocked up and not you and I don't generally feel guilty about banks any more than I feel guilty about parking tickets. So in my case, inertia would probably win and I'd do nothing and see what happened. I'm sounding like a really shady character now Any other moral dilemmas anyone? these are interesting!

OK - I'll pose one because this happened once. What happens if you have to take leave from work because child is ill/gasman coming whatever. You ring in and there is no-one there. All the bosses/your colleagues are out. Go in the next day and realise no-one noticed you weren't ever in. Would you still submit your leave slip?

This is an undetectable crime - it is just between you and your conscience.

And yes, well impressed by resident traffic warden.

No, wouldn't admit it. Blimey, have just realised I'm completely immoral

Oh the money thing happened to me when I was a student.
Didn't pay my poll tax (showing my age) and was then given a refund on money I hadnt paid. Didnt say anything. Was then given another refund (still hadnt paid) so I confessed and they took that refund back off me but never asked me to pay up. Then got another refund which they didn't take back even though I told them.
Worked out in the end I was about £200 in pocket. Who else can say that about Maggie Thatcher!!!
Would never do it now but I was a student ... I was broke .... etc etc .....

www that makes two of us then. I wouldn't have paid the parking ticket and would definately not admit to not having not been at work (surely you've worked extra hours before which more than make up for it).
On the banking one - if the amount is small enough that you could conceivably have not realised it was not yours (easy to say with equity investments with market volatility being what it is) then you do not have to tell anyone. The other persons account will be credited as long as they can prove the money was paid (ie cheque cashed on bank statement) so you are not depriving them.
However it is likely that the bank will be able to trace the account that was credited in error (our systems are v. clever these days) and they would then be entitled to take the money back. BUT only if you have not spent it, and by taking it back they must not cause you undue hardship. I would just ignore it fo now and see what the bank does - you will not get into any trouble.
One other point. This extra investment into your ISA doesn't take you over the £7,000 annual limit does it?

This is so interesting, I wouldn't have paid the parking fine, meanie that I am! I recently contested a parking ticket, I stuipidly put the money in the meter behind my car and ended up paying £40 ticket and giving someone free parking for a couple of hours. Amazingly, I didn't get off the ticket as they basically said I was a fool. The money in the bank thing, I am not so sure about as I'm sure it'll be noticed by the bank at some point. As someone else said, if it was still there after a long time, then maybe I would spend it.. how much was it? I am so nosy!

Also, I definitely wouldn't confess to not being at work either! Terrible but true!

sorry to lower the tone , but my sister just sent me this joke, and I thouht I've juts got to share it...
"You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today.

They left a little note on the windscreen, it said 'Parking Fine.'

So that was nice."

I have had two instances lately with parking tickets - one where I got off and the other where I didn't.

(1) I had parked in Wallington (our local High Street - although very small) in the library car park. I parked my car and left my 3 children in the car while I went to buy my pay and display ticket - I parked next but one to the ticket machine. I bought my ticket, placed it in the front of my dashboard, got the two elder ones out of the car, got the pram out of the boot and then got the baby out of the car into her pram. I then proceeded to do my shopping. When I got back a ticket had been issued. My ticket was still visible on the inside of my windscreen and was still valid. When I checked the time of issue of the parking ticket (pay and display one) and the parking fine they were out by 1 minute. My pay and display ticket was valid for 2 hours and I was issued with the parking ticket 1 minute before I purchased the pay and display ticket. This looked this I had got the parking fine and then bought the pay and display one but this definitely was not the csae. The car park has CCTV cameras and there was no traffic warden visible when I bought my pay and display ticket and it had taken me more than a few minutes to unload my children and vacate the car parking area - in all this time no traffic warden was visible.

I wrote a lovely letter to London Borough of Sutton stating my case - my ex H did not believe me and kept asking why didn't I just own up to the fact I bought the ticket as I had got the parking fine but my children (especially the 9 year old) vouched for me by saying that, at no time, was my car left unattended in the car park without showing a valid ticket as my children were in the car while I bought the ticket. I told LB Sutton to check their CCTV cameras. I also checked the time on the machine issuing the pay and display tickets and found it was fast by about 3 minutes. This means that my ticket had actually been purchased about 3 minutes before the valid start time - if that makes sense.

... anyway, the moral to this is that (1) I was being honest and not trying to get away with anything (2) the CCTV cameras would vouch for this (3) the ticket machine time was out.

AND I GOT LET OFF.

(2) My mum was having a breakdown and had been prescribed anti-depressants by the doctor. I had my 3 children in the back of the car and my mum in the front and had to stop to get my mum's prescription for her. I didn't fancy getting all of them out of the car so I stupidly stopped on a double yellow line, ran into the chemists, got the prescription, ran back out and saw a warden issuing a ticket. I explained that my mum was "ill" and I had to get her medication for her and I had 3 children to look after (he could see this as everyone was in my car) and he was a lovely man and very sympathetic but said that as he had issued an electronic ticket he could not just tear it up. He gave me his registration number (warden's registration) and name and told me to write to the address on the ticket explaining the situation and he said that he would also explain when he got back and it should be withdrawn. He was a lovely man and very understanding ... but I didn't get let off. At the end of the day, I had broken a bye-law by not only parking on a double yellow line but also parking with my wheels on the pavement when there wasn't a designated parking space. Needless to say, I held my hands up and paid!

Wasnt sure where to post this, but here goes. I need advice regarding a parking fine we received on sat, we went shopping with dd (5) who is disabled we have a disabled blue badge enabling us to park in a disabled parking bay. The car park we use do not charge a parking fee for holders of a blue badge. There were no disabled bays left so we parked over two normal bays to allow us to open the car door fully to get dd in and out easier. We were issued a parking fine and went to speak to the parking attendant who was really rude and said he saw our blue badge but because we were parked over two bays he gave us a fine, i tried to explain why we had to but he was still rude at this point dh was furious and threw the fine at the attendant and told him to shove it(you can guess exactly where dh told him to shove it !!!!) and drove of. Im not sure what happens now as we have never received a fine before, also the car is a motability car so were not sure if a fine will affect us getting another motability car in the future. Any advice would be great.

I think I would have done just as you did. Don't suppose you checked whether all the disabled bays were being used by disabled badge holders or not? I think if I was in your shoes I would contact the issuer of the blue badge and ask them their opinion.

Hello Ariel,

What a ridiculous thing to have happen to your family. I have a handicap step father. All I can say is that handicap people no matter what have priority over things like this. If there are no spaces left for the handicap then taken 2 should be allowed no matter. Personally this man was wrong and I think should be reported for this. Its not your fault there were no spaces left and where else would he have liked you to park your vehicle. There are many nasty people in this world who love to discriminate against anyone who is handicap and it makes me furious. I remember going to an amusement park with my whole family and the policy is if anyone in your party is handicap (he even has a permit he carries) then they are allowed to move to the front of the rides and get right on. People were looking at us with the nastiest looks. It really ticked me off. Naturally if my step dad was not with us we would of waited along with everyone else. Good luck with resolving this situation.

Well i spoke to the council who issued the fine , who gave me the usuall excuses, you know , every complaint has to be put in writing so thats what i have done, i have also asked them"why is it that in a parking lot as big as the one where we parked (a total of around 600 spaces that only 3 are allocated to disabled people)there a so few disabled spaces. Although i have a pretty good idea, blue badge holders are exempt from parking charges ,therefore loseing the council money from these allocated spaces. Its not the fact that i wish to not pay parking charges i just want a little more space to allow dd to be put in/out of our car safely is that too much to ask!!!!!!

No Ariel it is not too much to ask. Ask the council what the procedure should be if there are no disabled places left. What should you have done? Three spaces seems very little compared to most car parks I know. Surely there should be some sort of percentage given over to disabled spaces - and more than 0.5% I would say!

Oooh, this is infuriating, I agree ariel. I hope your letter gets a response and an immediate withdrawal of the ticket.

Do the council have an 'equal rights for disabled people' policy or something similar that says what they aim to do for disabled citizens? If you could find a nice little statement in there you might be able to make them eat their words.