Do you think there's room on here for diametrically opposing opinions?

[Twiglett]

When I first joined (oh yes indeedy, those halcyon days) there seemed to be a wider spread of opinions. And a greater respect for others.

Now it feels sometimes that there is an area of thinking that is deemed ok (in terms of parenting or social or political view), and it gets more and more narrowly defined as posters reinforce each other's views. Then there are extreme personalities who are seen as trolls for disagreeing with this established 'range of normality'. And possibly there are a lot of voices who just don't bother to comment because of the strength of the agreeing posters.

There have been times when someone will post a dissenting opinion and all of a sudden a huge group emerges from gawd-knows where seemingly relieved that their own sense of 'normality' is being raised.

I wonder whether respect for others is diminishing. I am certainly probably guilty of this, of posting an opposing position because the status quo seems to have swung too far away from my sense of 'normality' and 'correctness'. I'm certain I had more respect in the early days.

Of course it might just be me, I might be making no sense, or I may just be in a twonkish mood .. but anyhoo .. shall I post this?

there was a thread the other day where a very young mum, was desperatly (and secretly )asking for help and advice. she had a abusive and obsessive husband but felt trapped and scared to leave him. i was so sad to see one of the first replies to her told here to write properly- rather than'txt' speak as it 'spells trouble here on mn'. this poor girl was asking for help and all she go was what sounded to me like a snobby lecture..... she was only young and i think thats the way alot of young people type these days.

ah, well I disagreed with you no that thread Twig (and not rudely iirc but if I was I apologise) but lots of people shouted me down. So I wasn't 'allowed' to disagree in that instance.
Hmmm.

yes you did WWW.. and I think I was rather harsh back (which I also apologise for) but it didn't follow us around the board, it was left there

.. and you also make a valid point about being jumped on for it ..

Trouble is, it is very hard when you have a baby or a very small child to disentangle someone disagreeing with you from someone accusing you of being a bad parent.

I can remember feeling like that (not here but in RL).

It's not till your children grow up a little that you get the kind of perspective that allows you to admit that decent parenting comes in all sorts of guises - some of them diametrically opposed to yours.

Oh god Mimi - that really gets my goat! People using poor spelling and grammar as a stick to beat someone with...instead of arguing a point, they respond with an insult about the typing! I think that needs to stop.

Taking the mick in a friendly way is different of course , but insulting someone about their spelling because you don't share their opinion or just can't win the actual argument is just downright low

Dear me, I've misunderstood you, I thought your OP was trying to drum up a bit of debate and spread of opinion... I tried to respond... and you didn't take the bait .

Maybe it's you not MN that doesn't debate anymore?

it does get a bit rude on here sometimes

and a bit groundhog

but when you are an old git like myself, you have seen it all before

I just tend to stick to fluffy threads now as others tend to kick off

Just went and looked it up twig because I couldn't remember

I posted (not rudely but said I disagreed, albeit I didn't offer anything constructive so I understand why you didn't like it), you were cross that I disagreed and posted sarcastically, I got crosser that you were cross, you posted crossly, and on it went until I said ok, I will fk off if you don't want my opinion (which you didn't btw!) But these things happen in the heat of a night , it's fine. I suspect I'd have had MUCH more of a roasting from others had I not been here so long too - I think we were both cut some slack there.

But you're right, we did leave it there, I hadn't really thought about it again untl now.No hard feelings on my part, hope there aren't on yours but that thread is quite intresteing wrt this discussion.

And I'm a big fat hypocrite because only this morning I was saying how much I hated hearing how someone had typed 'kewl' on here instead of 'cool'

But it wasn't a personal attack in a debate instead of arguing my position, it was a moan in general terms.

[big fat hypocrite]

i sometimes feel myself getting into a state cos someone has posted something which reads abbruptly to me or just plain rude...and i can feel myself getting pulled into a slanging match....but i dont want that...sometimes mn brings out the worst in me!!!!

mytwopenceworth...i started a thread on why it 'spells trouble' as -one poster wrote- to use 'txt' speak. as i do do this with some words, like 2, tho, just for speed, as the treads move so quick and im a slow typer....and i got the response that it pisses people off and was ahrd to read..so im trying my best now to write in full! now i can see why it annoys people. i just thought it was bad timing on that particular thread as the young lady said her husband would go nuts if he caught her on the pc....i hope shes ok.

i too remember the halcyon days. i do remember when a suject could be raised for discussion - and a discussion taking place

i often changed my viewpoint.

now its often - i have THIS opinion and i will stand to the death to maintain it.

this i think is becuase of a couple of things

1. if you say - actually now you have given me that information i fell like i have changed my mind

the likly response would be - SEE I TOLD YOU YOU IGNORANT SHIT

2. there is so much mockery of things that are perfectly normal that the pervading culture of mumsnet IMO has become mockery

3. people are frightened of actually admitting to their non boden wrap dress lives and having non boden wrap dress opinions - becuase you get positivley LYNCHED

4. there are cliques - these are not just friendships - becuase with a healthy friendship one would be able to say - erm actually - much as i respect you i dont agree - rhubarb and i often do this- in fact i dont think we agree on anything. there are tangible groups of what i can only call pack dogs who pounce at blood

all together this means that MN is meaner.

which is fine. i still love it - the above are not the only descriptive points but rather what i consider to have caused the changing culture.

lol thats very true

we used to be good at self-mockery .. its when it switched externally that it got a touch nastier I think

NO THERE FUCKING ISN'T

YES THERE FUCKING IS

well I seem to have found room for them

A masterful summing up, Custardo

I came here from a much fluffier site and found it refreshing that people actually COULD disagree and voice opinions. Debates are good, and we cant all have the same opinion. However, what I am only now getting "used to" is the mockery that goes with the territory. It is beyond me how some people are capable to start outright mockery just because they are incapable of showing sympathy/empathy with somebody of a different viewpoint. It infuriates me, and provokes beyond sanity. But I am learning to recognise the main instigators of such mockery, and will just in the future stay away.

I would hate to return to "fluffier sites" and I am happy there are fluffier threads within MN to "hide".

Perhaps in the'old days' the lower no of contributers led to a wider spread of views and more respect as people were familiar with each other as regular users.

Now MN is a bigger entity there wil be groupings of opinions People nail their colours to a particular mast and posters will flock to defend a shared viewpoint (not necessarily adding to the debate in the process).

Having cloak of internet anonymity to allows some to say things to others they would not dream of doing face to face. That combined with the fact you can keep reading over posts that you find offensive thereby making yourself increasingly angry as you do so - can create a hysterical atmosphere.

It is a shame some people feel unable to express their views fearing they will be jumped on for it - I have no worries about it. But I find hysterical name calling and ott moral outrage a bit of a bore so now try to avoid posting inflammatory views on the whole - always welcome a reasoned argument though.

Of course anyone who disagrees with me is utterly wrong and clearly deranged! I just keep it to myself!!

agree with custy. The boden-y crowd is definitely more vocal and influential these days and it is more difficult to voice an opinion which is not of that ilk.

Also, it totally depends who is the op on a topic as to what the consensus is going to be. I suspect Liamsmummy3 would get a very different response on a smacking thread to the one you got.

too many people dont actually have an opinion of their own, hence the jump on the bandwagon, take sides, pitch forks and flame throwers

If you go on a thread and someone has already said exactly what you would have said, why bother commenting!!!!

There are so few threads now that i take part in beyond about 3 posts. I used to be days ona thread, discussing, argiong, and, as Custy says, having my pov widened or shifted.

I love MN for the different pov. Different pov and different experiences in life - it is a fantastic privelidge to be able to talk with such a wide range of people on such a wide range of topics. I wish people would treasure and respect that more.

I think there are a lot of people who use it as entertainment without the advice and experience share. And I saw a couple of posts recently where people openly admitted that they came on MN for a bit of sport, and enjoyed the bust-ups as particpants or watching others. An exchange of differnt perspectives is interesting - a bust up is a waste of time and a waste of MN, imo

Does anyone else find their worst fights are on subjects they don't really have much of an opinion on? Like the travel nanny thread yesterday. I posted originally to give a counter argument in support of the OP then ended up in a hige bun fight. At about 10pm I thought "I don't fly, I never fly, I'm not about to fly, I don't really care why am I in the midst of a huge row". So I said the thread was turning me into a loon because it was!

I have a vague opinion that if people aren't harming anyone else then they should be allowed to get on with doing stuff their own way, but somehow that argument gets lost and becomes opinionated.