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Original poster

Lowri Turner talks about mixed Indian/White babies (well, hers actually) in todays Guardian, what do you all think?

253 replies

WideWebWitch · 07/07/2007 10:43

Full article here

She says things like

But we dont live in an ideal world and the way we all look matters. My daughters appearance is an issue to others as well as myself. A (white) friend visited yesterday and having examined the baby, she announced: Shes getting quite dark, isnt she? And I am ashamed to admit that in a reversal of what happens on holiday when you study your skin in the mirror every day hoping for a deepening tan, I too now find myself examining my daughter for signs that her skin is becoming a deeper shade of brown and being perturbed if I find them.

I am at this. My ds is half Indian.

And:

While I genuinely dont think that my not being Indian was a factor that counted against me with my husband or his family, I did underestimate the difference between our cultural backgrounds when we were first together. Our daughter will have to cope with being the product of two very different cultures. She will have to negotiate her own cultural identity, and I know too little to really help her.

I am intending to leave the Indian side of my daughters upbringing to my in-laws. This may seem a cop out, but, frankly, Im too knackered to do otherwise. If I had adopted her, social services would probably whip her away. However, working and bringing up three children, I havent the energy to learn Hindi or make my own lassi

BTW Ive taken apostrophes and quotation marks out as they come out strangely in preview but you get the gist.

OP posts:
emsiewill · 08/07/2007 12:01

I think I like reading him 'cos it makes me feel intellectual...which I am patently not

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 08/07/2007 12:26

Just looked at his blog and oh yes, I would very much like to join the BGAS!

OP posts:
zazas · 08/07/2007 12:42

DP and I have had our first baby together 11 weeks ago. He has two children who are very blonde, pale, blue eyed and this one is dark haired/ darker skinned and will be brown eyed. Of course he notices the difference (like the dark downy hair on her ears - lovely ) But does he really see any differences - no - it is still the same over whelming love for a newborn child that is his that he notices, feels and enjoys at this early stage.

Caroline1852 · 08/07/2007 16:22

He probably only loves the blonde ones a tiny bit more - not really significant. LOL (From a brunette!)

NotQuiteCockney · 08/07/2007 16:36

Oh, yes, I was going to say, not very many steps between me and BG. I do like him, too.

This article made me and . She is so stuck in the European model of 'there are white people and there are black people'. I mean the whole 'she looks no more like me than Naomi Campbell does' . If you are Black (or anything non-white, goodness knows, anyone with a touch of the tar brush is the same), that attribute says what you look like much more than face shape, features, etc etc. I am just at the whole thing.

If you are mixed black and white, and you are travelling in Africa, you are seen as white, just the same as mixed people are seen as black here. People see what is different, and don't notice what is the same. I guess her attitude and beliefs are normal, but they're seriously fucked up, too.

MrsBadger · 08/07/2007 16:43

[nonchalantly polishes gold BGAS Founder Member badge]

aloha · 08/07/2007 17:00

What a horrible article. I would never, ever write anything as negative about my children as that. Yes, when you just have a baby, writing about it is easy money, but
none of this is tomorrow's chip paper. It stays around. You can google it. It's so, so unkind and unthinking.
Think what you like, I'm not interesting in censoring people's thoughts, however horrible, but writing stuff like that about your own newborn baby horrifies me.
And agree with those who resent her generalising about her own experience. Presumably it makes her feel better to think that everyone who has a mixed race child is somehow embarrassed and appalled by them, but actually Lowri, I think that's you.

theStallionOfSensibleness · 08/07/2007 17:07

Just lol abotu caitlin's sainthood now being widely bandied about.

policywonk · 08/07/2007 17:15

Aloha: in that respect it reminds me of that horrid article by the woman who wanted the world to know that she doesn't love her step-children. (What is it with the Guardian's family section? A handy way to ensure that your unpleasant sentiments will be read by future generations!)

ROFL at NQC's tar brush comment.

BGAS members: I will shortly be collecting £50 from each of you to cover my photocopying expenses.

NKF · 08/07/2007 17:16

I think that's a good point, Aloha, about features sticking around. Newspapers did used to be tomorrow's chip wrapping. Now, thanks to the Internet, her views will have greater longevity.

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 08/07/2007 21:52

Aloha, I agree, I would never write anything as negative about my child/ren either.

OP posts:
snowleopard · 08/07/2007 22:20

Also have to agree, having slagged off the Family section in general, that the article by the woman who'd had a stillborn daughter, which I've since read, was atypically brilliant. Insightful and constructive as well as moving.

PussinJimmyChoos · 08/07/2007 22:26

Bloody hell!! My DS is half Arabic half English and I've made the effort to make sure he will be acquainted with both cultures! Everything he points at I tell him the name in English and Arabic (if I know it), he has English and Arabic picture books and I've made the effort to learn an awful lot about the Arabic culture and history - if you marry someone from a different culture and have children with them, then I think its your responsibility to try and understand it! It works both ways too - DH is living here rather than in Middle East and is very adapted to English customs (and quite partial to the odd chip butty!!)

PussinJimmyChoos · 08/07/2007 22:27

Ps

And Lassi is pi** easy to make - what is she bleating about!

CaraLondon · 09/07/2007 08:24

yeah - I didn't get the lassi thing, either - whisk some yoghurt with some water and salt and spices - as I said, she is just thick.

Freckle · 09/07/2007 10:15

OK, so what is lassi? Yoghurt, etc, but what is it used for? Is it a drink or a dressing?

MrsBadger · 09/07/2007 10:24

tis a drink
you can buy (fairly average) readymade lassi with the chocolate milk etc in Tesco

Freckle · 09/07/2007 10:31

Oh right. So she wouldn't need to make it would she? Even if it's dead simple.

Yurtgirl · 09/07/2007 10:34

Even my ds knows how to make lassi!!!!!!! and hes 5. They showed some kids making it with their dad on tikabilla (I think)
Its only mashed mango mixed into milk

FioFio · 09/07/2007 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MrsThierryHenry · 09/07/2007 11:01

I am black, my DH is white, and our son has a beautiful honey complexion with silky dark brown hair. While I was preg, we were excited to discover what he would look like and now we think he's gorgeous.

I was intrigued by LT's article - I don't have an opinion on her particularly as I don't know enough about her, but I was struck by the honesty in her writing. We live in a culture that is incredibly focused on appearance, as we witness in the rise in cosmetic surgery and the need for programmes like How To Look Good Naked, which show quite powerfully the impact our appearance can have on our psyche. LT has been open and honest about the impact of lookism on her feelings about her family - what's wrong with that?

It is a pity that she has had such mixed feelings about having a baby who's not 100% white (though genetically many white people probably aren't 100% European anyway), but I feel that she has done well to be so honest about it. When I was pregnant and had to decide whether I wanted to know if there was a chance our baby would have Down's Syndrome, I was horrified to discover that it really mattered to me. I had to go through a lot of soul-searching, at the end of which I decided that I would accept him as he was, 'flawed' or not, not least because perfection doesn't exist - either at birth or later in life. If I hadn't been so brutally honest with myself I would probably still have those negative feelings towards disability lurking away in the hidden corners of my mind.

So I actually applaud LT for her disarming honesty. A lot of people are afraid to be so open about the darker sides of their thoughts and feelings, but by doing so publicly she has proven that she is stronger than that.

MyEye · 09/07/2007 11:17

I think Bink is right, this has so much to do with the fact that her 2nd marriage is over. That's the huge unaddressed issue in the piece. The fact that her daughter is such a constant physical reminder of her father

Unwise/borderline bonkers to write this -- but that's the LT way (she is/was forever slagging off the father of her boys)

Am startled that no MN comment has been passed re fact that when paying for petrol, she leaves all three children in the car

Lowri, love, get off the laptop, get back into bed and eat cake.

FioFioJane · 09/07/2007 11:18

has she already split up with her daughters dad aswell?

MyEye · 09/07/2007 11:20

'Am I one of these women now? Apparently, yes - particularly since I am now a single parent, having split up from my daughter's father.'

2/3 of way down piece

Blu · 09/07/2007 11:23

The thing is, MrsTH, she didn't actually focus on any of the political context - as you have done. I agree with you about the rising power of that, but she seemed oblivious to the context. the things she didn't mention were the context of racism 9as it genuinely exists - and how there might be a bit of an added factor in being a white parent of a mixed-race child and how to you help them address it), and the image-obsessed con6tect that you talk about.

I was incensed from the opening paras. Her mother is of Mandela-like staus because she isn't racist??? One hopes it is the ordinary norm amongst magistrates!! Not worthy of any 'wow' factor at all!!

And to talk of feeling that her dd is 'alien'??

Honesty, well maybe...but not very intelligently discussed, she didn't even seem aware that in all her liberal brow-beating and hand wringing, the fact that she was racist and classist about other mixed race families and how they are (alledgedly) preceived (in the V Pollard para) escaped her. In order to earn more than a full page in a braodsheet, honesty must be accompanied by meaningful thought and analysis, imo.

And in terms of generalisation, I did not recognise one single sentence of what she wrote as my experience. My DP (of a different race from me) was equally impatient with the article.

I thonk the Guardian should be embarrassed to have such low-grade stuff on a front page.