Lowri Turner talks about mixed Indian/White babies (well, hers actually) in todays Guardian, what do you all think?

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Full article here

She says things like

But we dont live in an ideal world and the way we all look matters. My daughters appearance is an issue to others as well as myself. A (white) friend visited yesterday and having examined the baby, she announced: Shes getting quite dark, isnt she? And I am ashamed to admit that in a reversal of what happens on holiday when you study your skin in the mirror every day hoping for a deepening tan, I too now find myself examining my daughter for signs that her skin is becoming a deeper shade of brown and being perturbed if I find them.

I am at this. My ds is half Indian.

And:

While I genuinely dont think that my not being Indian was a factor that counted against me with my husband or his family, I did underestimate the difference between our cultural backgrounds when we were first together. Our daughter will have to cope with being the product of two very different cultures. She will have to negotiate her own cultural identity, and I know too little to really help her.

I am intending to leave the Indian side of my daughters upbringing to my in-laws. This may seem a cop out, but, frankly, Im too knackered to do otherwise. If I had adopted her, social services would probably whip her away. However, working and bringing up three children, I havent the energy to learn Hindi or make my own lassi

BTW Ive taken apostrophes and quotation marks out as they come out strangely in preview but you get the gist.

oh i'd freely fess up to thinking ds2 was a funny looking blighter (hope he doesn't read mn though later in life 0 which is why I kind of kind of understand what she means and think she maybe has not bonded with her baby as yet cos it took me a while too

I think my mum AND my dad may have had similar(ish) thoughts to LT when I was born - over 40 years ago.

LT is almost the same age as me and I suspect is being disengenous (sp?) And harmful. For money.

I am trying to think that LT has recently given birth, split up from her husband, is suffering from sleep deprivation and her hormones are all over the place so we can prhaps forgive this pile of drivel. If the above is not true, then this is a truly dreadful piece of journalism.

But then also, if it's that bad, why is she even working so soon when she could be focusing on her baby and her recovery? It's like that other daft woman who had a piece in Family about deciding not to be a working mum (oh apart from writing drivel for the Guardian of course).

I found the vicki pollard bit pretty offensive being a white woman with a mixed raced daughter myself, I really thought people had moved on from this type of thing and now she goes and writes that type of drivel, and they print it think I might do a complaint , its really depressing, what a muppet she is!

God with a mother with views like that I piy the poor child! If she doesn't get a grip soon the poor girl will grow up with a bunch of nerousis that are nothing to do with her and everything to do with her mother. I know you can argue this is 'honest' writing, but I found it depressingly vain and shallow. My SIL is Asian (I'm white), my nephew is as white as they come (in fact most people don't realise his mother is Asian) my niece more like her mother, for my brother and his family it isn't an issue - they have embraced both sides. The Vicky Pollard comment is just so sterotyped.... actually the more I think about it the more I am by the whole article

What strange woman . I think it's ace that my kids aren't pasty white.

The article about stillbirth is very good though...

www.guardian.co.uk/family/story/0,,2120554,00.html

Never really liked LT tbh. Hopefully this was written in the haze of sleep deprivation and hormones. She wrote some odd things in the article that went with her first wedding too which made me think "what an odd lady". Perhaps I just misconstrued it.

well my kids are "pasty white" and I love them all to absolute smitherines

It shouldn't matter what colour your children are...surely you just love them exactly the way they are??????

Why do people always find something to take offence about. Chill out for heavens sake. it's as if there are posters roaming the threads looking for places where they can be offended.

I think her article (and thoughts and feelings) provoke such a strong response because they are centred around skin colour which is charged with political correctness (quite rightly and for good reason). It would not be so distasteful if she was complaining about her daughter having inherited her father's crokscrew curls, or red hair (though I gather ginger people experience a virulent kind of prejudice of their own), indeed if she had not noticed his ginger curls until now we would not be saying how totally ludicrous; it would be rather quaint and sad. I think her article is ill-advised (and comes across as horribly racist) but I am not sure that can be the case. However, in her defence, you need only study the rudiments of Schopenhauer to discover that we choose mates subconsciously who will best preserve our genes. Lots of people marry someone who has physical familial resemblance (couples often look alike, the man looks like the woman's father etc). Often this seeking out similar genetic heritage has disastrous genetic consequences (Cystic Fibrosis, Tay Sachs etc) but it is still engaged in. She just sounds a bit potty to me - perhaps she is not having a great time of things.

As an Indian with an English husband I felt slightly sickened reading Turner on this. If she didn't realise the cultural differences while she was married to him, she really can't have been paying that much attention to her relationship.

It doesn't matter that I was born here (and brought up by parents who wanted me to be more English than the English - I can't speak a word of any Indian language, although my mother speaks five languages - I was taught RP!), or that haven't been to the mosque in years, or that I don't wear saris or anything like that, there will always be points of cultural difference which I have always found interesting and exciting in my relationship with my husband - it was all part of the fun of getting to know each other over the years.

Our first child is due to be born in two weeks time. She's to have a name which works both well in Arabic, Gujarati and in English and will be brought up with an understanding of both traditions, but I hope will also be taught that irrespective of the traditions of her parents, she will have the freedom to define her own cultural identity - it's as much as anyone can hope for, given the fact that this is surely the great unknown of mixed race children.

When I first read this piece, my instant reaction was actually to question whether I had been complaisant in just not addressing the race issue at all (actually, it hadn't occurred to me at all - the question of how to go about teaching her our respective faiths was far more important) I felt really low about this, but only for a couple of minutes. Thanks to everyone here for pointing out that this woman is quite obviously just dim. Am just giong through that awkward, vulnerable doubting patch...

I'm normally a Telegraph reader, BTW - some of the prejudice there can be archaic, but I have always found that there is a really old-fashioned liberal-individualist streak running through the majority of their features. I find Telegraph journalists far less offensive than hand wringing liberals who think that I am automatically victimised just because of my colour.

Sorry to rant, but I found the Guardian article so insensitive.

complacent, not complaisant

I never read the Guardian unless it's posted on here either but it does look this this person (who I'd never heard of) rushed into a second marriaeg before she was 40 without proper thought (60% of second marriages fail) and a baby (and in the other link wrote about their bad sex life in the second marriage despite promising her husband she wouldn't write about him) and then they split up which is very sad. Presumably she is writing it because she needs to feed the children and if you write something controversial then you're likely to be asked to write more articles.

I found it very strange she didn't realise he was Indian at first and also that she didn't think through how she might feel before they had children together.

I remember a programme once about non identical twins - one was black and one white (or they looked like that) but same parents and how differently sadly they would be treated throughout their life by some (not all thankfully) people. The interesting difference in how say the thousands of Poles (usually blonde or fair) who have moved to London are treated compared with say the Jamaicans after WWII would make a very fascinating TV programme or I suppose we'd have to make it fair choose a group that have moved here around the same time as the Poles whose skin isn't white and see if there is any difference.

The article was accompanied by a picture of her holding her daughter - one glance was enough to melt most people's hearts I'd think, a gorgeous little one curled up defenceless and trustful against mum's shoulder, the colour of her skin the last thing most people would notice in the rush of 'awwww a baby!'

The article certainly didn't make you warm to the author and I think she'd have been better off keeping quiet, though if she's having those thoughts for real (and not just decided to write a newspaper article with a different spin to attract a feature editor) then it's no use saying 'she shouldn't think that way' because presumably she knows she shouldn't, but still does. (Don't get me wrong, I'm howling with outrage that that precious little mite should have a mother thinking such thoughts. Give her to me, I say.) But people DO have those thoughts. I had a dear friend, blonde and blue-eyed, who told me that her husband had wanted to marry her 'because she would give him Aryan children'. I expressed surprise but she assured me it was true. Fortunately she produced the goods.

Message withdrawn

REALLY??

holy moly

Considering neither their father nor I have blonde hair it always surprises me that three of mine were blonde. I always wanted a red haired one but that never happened but really it's all quite superficial.Most of us love our children as they are as I am sure she does despite what she says in the article. She just needs to get used to having chidlren by different fathers who are therefore bound to look less like each other than children of one marriage.

Oi, what's the BGAS?

The Ben Goldacre Appreciation Society

You're a Grauniad reader, you can join if you like

Two things:

My brother is friends with LT's brother, and he (the brother) is apparently v strange.

Can I join the BGAS too, please? I linked to one of his articles on here once (the Protect and Perfect one of course), is that enough to secure membership, even though I am not even anything close to being a scientist?

OK then emsie. Seeing as how you've worked out how to link and everything.

I think his appeal is enhanced if you are not a scientist. I am an arts graduate, and he makes me feel like a bad girl.