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Original poster

Lowri Turner talks about mixed Indian/White babies (well, hers actually) in todays Guardian, what do you all think?

253 replies

WideWebWitch · 07/07/2007 10:43

Full article here

She says things like

But we dont live in an ideal world and the way we all look matters. My daughters appearance is an issue to others as well as myself. A (white) friend visited yesterday and having examined the baby, she announced: Shes getting quite dark, isnt she? And I am ashamed to admit that in a reversal of what happens on holiday when you study your skin in the mirror every day hoping for a deepening tan, I too now find myself examining my daughter for signs that her skin is becoming a deeper shade of brown and being perturbed if I find them.

I am at this. My ds is half Indian.

And:

While I genuinely dont think that my not being Indian was a factor that counted against me with my husband or his family, I did underestimate the difference between our cultural backgrounds when we were first together. Our daughter will have to cope with being the product of two very different cultures. She will have to negotiate her own cultural identity, and I know too little to really help her.

I am intending to leave the Indian side of my daughters upbringing to my in-laws. This may seem a cop out, but, frankly, Im too knackered to do otherwise. If I had adopted her, social services would probably whip her away. However, working and bringing up three children, I havent the energy to learn Hindi or make my own lassi

BTW Ive taken apostrophes and quotation marks out as they come out strangely in preview but you get the gist.

OP posts:
Original poster
WideWebWitch · 07/07/2007 18:42

Eww at that article about her sex life Ts.

Re "Wickedwaterwitch - did you see that Liz Jones is dating her ex again - why oh why? They're both writing about it, of course." Marina said it, you answered the question in the last sentence.

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for her really, alone with a new 10 wk old baby and 2 other children. But I still massively disagree with her and think it's very sad that she feels this way about her dd's skin colour.

OP posts:
ApuNahasapeemapetilon · 07/07/2007 18:50

i dont look a bit like 3 of my kids
i am blue eyed blonde they ate brown eyed dark haired ... do i wax lyrical about how they will never look like me???
very naive lowri
i have been asked if they are all mine as two of mine look wildly different to the others
i am unmarried
i at no time liken myself to vicki pollard
i think she is eithe - straight mad or suffering some form of paranoia
either way offensive
why protect a woman who openly admits homophobia ? bizarre!

ruty · 07/07/2007 19:01

'she [her dd] looks as similar to me as i do to Naomi Campbell'. I think this woman is deranged. For a start babies often don't begin to look like either parent for a while. And to assume for some strange reason that her daughter won't look like her because she is mixed race infers that the features from the Indian side of the family will somehow dominate over the Caucasian ones, which is either bonkers or actually rather nastily racist.

clairemagnolia · 07/07/2007 19:25

And the article on the next page about stillbirth put it all in perspective really.

Judy1234 · 07/07/2007 19:38

cv, do don't you think it would be wise to live somewhere where everyone isn't blonde and blue eyed, though? Our borough is 18% hindu for a start, never mind anyone else and my children (3 are blonde) have never been in a racial majority anywhere except on a few holidays and certainly not at school.

shhhh · 07/07/2007 21:36

not agreeing/disagreeing with what lt wrote BUT maybe now wasn't the right time for writing such an article 10 weeks after giving birth....

I think if we were all being honest with ourselves then at this stage after the pregnancy we were all feeling quite vunerable,negative and as though we are careering through life at 150 mph iykwim....

Maybe this could be signs of pnd.? At end of the day she is only human and has had to endure a marriage breakup/seperation as well as a birth..

Piffle · 07/07/2007 21:41

Indian women won Miss World 3 yrs on the trot
they are stunning looking women on the whole.
I said somewhat superficially that if I was reborn, then I would like to come back for those looks alone. oh that and the food and the family values and work /education ethic.

WWW - I am not sure what cultural issues may crop up and it is hard to say which part of your dd's life will dominate. In a relationship where two cultures collide, it is perfectly fair that each part imparts their values equally. Must be bloody hard though.

mummytosteven · 07/07/2007 21:53

hmmmmm. some of the comments were really quite barking. 8 week old babies all look like Winston Churchill don't they . And as for the misuse of the word "grief".... Seriously I'm also wondering if there's a touch of PND.

edam · 07/07/2007 21:59

Um, can I be in the Ben Goldacre Appreciation Society, please? Man's a hero.

Piffle · 07/07/2007 21:59

oh Lowri is well known as a self indulgent feckless wannabe headline grabbing in the style of St Caitlin of Moran but failing oh so miserably everytime kinda wench.

edam · 07/07/2007 21:59

(And Lowri Turner is a nutter.)

sleepycat · 07/07/2007 21:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Piffle · 07/07/2007 22:00

i mean I have a dd with Noonan Syndrome much of her looks are dictated by that and not by my gene pool
Face?
Bovvered?

Rantmum · 07/07/2007 22:00

Don't care what the topic is, I just wish Lowri Turner would STOP TALKING. That woman bugs my tits off.

morocco · 07/07/2007 22:02

agree with shhhh, she's been very frank with her thoughts, probably not a good idea to share with all the world, sounds like she hasn't bonded yet with her dd and if she looks like her ex that might be upsetting for her at first. once she has bonded more no doubt she will look back and regret being so frank
it was reasonably interesting to read. I would worry about discrimination and how to help my children face it if I were in a similar position cos it's not like you can use your own experiences to advise is it? and those ethnic form things the uk adores would be a bit of a shock to fill in i would imagine if you're ticking a different box for a change. I know they certainly are to many immigrants to the uk who suspect racist motives behind the categorising.
as an aside and not especially relevant, a (white uk) friend of mine had a baby with her (arab non uk) husband and I did a double take the first time I saw her as she looked totally and utterly like her dad. It was a bit disconcerting. I have no idea why but it was. it would also get a bit irritating if people constantly asked you if your child was adopted etc just cos colour of skin so different. I can see why she would be concerned about future nosiness by strangers
anyhow, i wouldn't give her too hard a time but it seemed a bit of a 'stream of consciousness' article

homemama · 07/07/2007 22:08

What struck me about the article is how she's wasting so much time trying to analyse this rather than enjoying her daughter.

Both DH and I are white but neither of my children look a bit like me. They both look very like their father, that's genetics for you!

I have very similar colouring to LT and I'm quite grateful my kids aren't pastey like me.

MadamePlatypus · 07/07/2007 22:09

I could be completely off target here, but do you think she might be finding it strange that her DD looks different to her DS's? I find it really common for people to say that their 2nd child is exactly the same as a new born as their 1st child (even if I struggle to see the resemblence). Neither DS or DD look particularly like me, but I am used to a DS/DD type baby.

MadamePlatypus · 07/07/2007 22:09

She is being paid for her analysing though, and its not cheap having three kids...

Judy1234 · 07/07/2007 22:11

(Piffle not a hugely good record of treatment of girls in India though, is there? Not sure I'd like to reborn an Indian woman - good chance I'd be aborted for my sex before I even saw the light of day in some families there, not all of course but more than in most countries, sadly - not the best place to born female)

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 07/07/2007 22:11

Piff, when you say "WWW - I am not sure what cultural issues may crop up and it is hard to say which part of your dd's life will dominate. In a relationship where two cultures collide, it is perfectly fair that each part imparts their values equally. Must be bloody hard though."

what do you mean? It's my ds who is half Indian and we don't have any cultural ishoos, he understands Gujarati, spends every other we with his dad, it's all fine sorry if I misunderstood you though!

OP posts:
nooka · 07/07/2007 22:13

I thought it was interesting too. I have had quite similar thoughts in the past about my dd, because I found it very difficult to "see" anything familiar in her, in a way that was very different from my son, who I immediately related to as very much mine. Not from a mixed race point of view, because dh and I are white with unremarkable genes (very boring really) but she was very blonde when she was little, and just didn't look familiar at all (all my family are pale with dark hair, and dh is fairly similar). ds on the other hand has always managed to look both very like my dh and also very like me (frequently commented on by many people we meet). Once I got to know dd well I could see all sorts of family characteristics, but I think it did cause a few "strange" moments for me when she was very little.

I think that if your experiecne of your children is that they come out as blonde little boys and then you have a very different looking little girl it probably does come as a slight shock and requires readjustment. Especially if you are on your own.

Piffle · 07/07/2007 22:19

xenia I said ^superficially" for that exact reason.
I am well aware of the god awful treatment of girls/women in India.
WWW I'm a bit pissed petal. Got wrong end of stick you know. Read OP , then post then read the link

FlossALump · 07/07/2007 22:30

I hadn't realised she had had a baby. Seen her on a couple of programmes recently, and felt she had somewhat lost her 'sparkle'. So perhaps all isn't quite well with her atm and people are right in saying she is manifesting it by spouting off a loud of shite about her poor DD. BTW am I alone in hoping my offspring don't resemble me too much?

TaylorsMummy · 07/07/2007 22:48

how awful.i think the woman needs counselling,seriously

snowleopard · 07/07/2007 23:20

I'm astonished and shocked that -

a) she would even think of her child's skin colour in a negative way - doesn't everyone find their newborn gorgeous?

b) even if she does, she'd admit to it!

c) the guardian would print it. It would be one thing saying "I'm worried because my daughter has darker skin and we live in a society where she might be victimised for it." It's quite another saying she herself doesn't like it much. yes she's being honest and self-critical but that doesn't make it OK.

How can people write stuff like this knowing their child might one day see it? Her daughter deserves to hear her mum praising her beauty to the skies, whatever she looks like. A mother's support and praise - or not - plays a such huge part in forming a girl's confidence.

I really do think the Guardian Family section is the biggest pile of toss, as I've said before - when there's a golden opportunity for it to be full of mumsnet-esque practicality, wit and wisdom. But it never is.