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Original poster

Does anyone live with their ILS or have experience of doing so? What are the pitfalls/legal implications? Any tips?

56 replies

WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:03

MIL and FIL (dh's parents as opposed to ex DH's parents, who I talk about quite a bit!) live in Devon.

MIL has just been into hospital because she had a fall and we've just been told that it's unlikely she'll walk again FIL was told that he could more or less give up his life right now - he is very active, has sheep, does gardening for people, is out and about most days while MIL is usually in on her own - and he has been heartbroken at this news. (for all sorts of reasons, not just so he can get out and about!)

They have dh who is FIL's only child. MIL has a son (so dh's half brother) from a previous marriage. There is no other family. Half brother lives near PIL but isn't any help and doesn't see them often. My reason for explaining this is that their finances are organised thus:

House in MILS name, she owns it
Cash in FILS name, it's his
They are married. I've said to dh "are you sure?" and he says yes.

Their wills state:
FIL: Everything goes to dh, nothing to MIL. This is because FIL doesn't want his stepson, dh's half brother to get anything and if he leaves it to MIL she would then in turn leave it split between DH/her other child.
MIL: half to dh, half to other child.

FIL is keen to move to be nearer us. We have asked them if they want to move in with is but only if we can find a house with a) an annexe for them and b) a small paddock for FILS sheep. The idea is that they have a smaller living space but it's made up for by having a bit of land for FILS sheep. That way

  • he doesn't have to give his life up as he can keep his sheep but be within home phone range of MIL. Wherever they live MIL will need some care. There is talk of the main house being sold to pay for that (they will get at least £4-500k for it)
  • We can help, our cleaner can clean their house, we can shop online for them, can cook for them sometimes
  • they get to see dd who is FILs only grandchild
  • We get the benefit of FILS cash as he would pay 50% of the value of the house in cash and we would get a mortgage for the other half. We will get a substantially bigger house than we could afford alone as a result of this (although I would be quite happy to get our own house too, we'll get something nice if we buy alone too although it would take longer as we don't have a deposit)

So, what are the pitfalls? I know we will have to agree up front what the deal is with coming into each others houses and the amount of help we can give them and stuff but I'm ok with that. We both work ft oth and we have 2 children so there's a limit to the amount of time we have but at least we'll be able to look after MIL if FIL wants to go out alone and at least they'll see dd and at least we can help get them other help iyswim, if they need it.

Has anyone done this? How did it work? Is there a huge inheritance tax problem here? We can't afford for our house to be sold to pay for care so how can we be sure that won't happen? We only talked about it yesterday and in theory it's all a good idea if a bit scary. If FIL dies first we will be solely responsible for MIL but we know that. It's unlikely though, he's fit and active and younger but you never know.

Wise words welcomed. TIA. Sorry it's so long.

OP posts:
Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:03

God, that is SO long, sorry.
The gist of it is: what should I consider before buying with ILS?

OP posts:
Iota · 15/04/2007 09:13

I found you a house

oooh I love property porn too

Iota · 15/04/2007 09:16

this one comes with separate bungalow

Kaloo20 · 15/04/2007 09:20

Sorry can't help with your situation, but very nice house

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:22

too much money!

We want
3/4 beds
2 bathrooms at least
a paddock
an annexe
a garden

OP posts:
suzywong · 15/04/2007 09:29

you know if you find the ideal property that checks all your boxes about from an annexe, you could always build on a granny flat kit home like what we are. I mean if you just can't find anythin straight away.

You may have to think about a deed of trust thing whereby MIL and FIL legally state their intent for you to be solely responsible for their care without taking any payment, inheritance or otherwise, directly for it. That may prevent all kinds of hooo haaaa if half Brother gets the hump somewhere down the track and starts slinging mud. You don't want to be accussed of anything, ever,

Iota · 15/04/2007 09:31

OK I've downscaled - here's a counrty cottage

sorry can't help with the serious questions

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:34

I know SW. FIL said to dh not to discuss it with half brother yet as he may be funny re inheritance. We, on the other hand, couldn't care less if they spend every penny (even if we don't go with this plan to move in together) while they're alive and we've said as much. It would actually be easier for us NOT to do this but I guess half brother may not see it that way.

He's a lazy fker, has never worked despite being perfectly capable of doing so, 50 yrs old and we think he probably is waiting for his half of MILS house.

OP posts:
Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:35

Iota, have emailed you.
Oh gawd, maybe we won't have enough money?
Looking at local paper I think we will but what we want is v specific.

OP posts:
suzywong · 15/04/2007 09:37

well you will have to consider it very carefully

we are in a similar situation re not even thinking about inheritance and wanting to be fair all round, BIL is wealthy-ish but has a chip on his shoulder and we want to be covered against anything should grief bring out a mean streak when MIL goes.

So rather than not discussing it with BIIL, you should draw something up with IL's solicitor and make everything known right from the start - that doesn't mean he has any say in the matter but it will protect you.

Kaloo20 · 15/04/2007 09:38

or this possible new home

cheaper still

suzywong · 15/04/2007 09:39

I thought you lived in Bristol, not Beds, WWW? Are you moving area?

Iota · 15/04/2007 09:40

have replied - am going for a shower now

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:41

I live in Beds/Bucks/Northants/Oxfordshire SW and work near Milton Keynes (sorry, don't want to be more specific than that!) We moved a year ago. Tis fab. Better schools, paid more money (London salaries here), lovely area, it's great. We're v v happy here.

OP posts:
Dinosaur · 15/04/2007 09:43

You must have a very very strong relationship with them even to contemplate this, www.

How on earth will you enforce the agreement about when you come into each other's houses, for example? What happens if, say, one of them develops Alzheimer's - they might not even be able to remember such an agreement, never mind respect it.

I think you'd have to be an incredibly tolerant and saintly person to do this with people who aren't even your own parents.

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:46

cheers Iota, have emailed you back too.

OP posts:
puddle · 15/04/2007 09:46

www I can give you some experience from my dp's family.

His grandmother (father's mother) moved in with his parents in the very same situation you describe. She was on her own - her husband had died several years before.

She had a flat attached to the house with her own bit of garden. Totally self sufficient.

I think it worked well while she was fit and active. As she got older it became more difficult. I know my MIL found it hard to balance grandmother's needs - she became more demanding just because her social life diminished and her life became the house and the family around her.

She then had a stroke and although they had some ss support with looking after her it's fair to say my MIL became her carer and it completely changed their relationship - it deteriorated quite badly and caused my MIL a lot of grief as they had been close. She has made it really clear to her family that she never wants this sort of an arrangement herself.

I think when you go into this arrangement you need to look at all the possible long-term scenarios.

Although your in-laws now will be pretty self suffient the reality is that this will change. What if your FIL becomes ill or dies? Or your MIL's health deteriorates? What if something changes in your lives and you need to move (this happened to my in-laws and was a nightmare for them to resolve - my FIL had to move for his job at one point). I would want to be very clear about what situations would warrant a reassessment of the living arrangements and how that then would work.

Sorry this sounds v negative reading it back.

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:51

Oh god Dino, do you think I'm mad? I don't have a fab relationship with them but it's not bad. We don't see them much atm. FIL is very kindly, twinkly. MIL can be a bit of a bitter misery guts but I can cope, I am just unrelentingly cheerful with her. I'm not really worried about that side of it, I just blithely think it'll be fine, maybe I'm hugely deluded. Alzheimers, well, if they do, they do, if there's wandering we'll deal with it. I'm not a hugely private person really, i.e ex dh has a key to our house and uses it when he picks ds up from school twice a week, doesn't bother me (or dh). He rings and tells me I need milk and stuff!

I'm not saintly honestly, I'm a bit of an old bag but I love dh and he loves his parents and I want to do it for him. He was bloody fantastic when my dad died and he would have done the same for me. (and may have to yet, my mum is an extremely able 65 but..)

OP posts:
Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 09:56

Puddle, I actively want and welcome tales of woe about this, really. I need to be prepared.

Yes, I guess the long term care thing is the scariest. They are going to die at some point, of course they are, MIL is 71 and frail already, although FIL is an active 66yo and I think will be here for a good while yet (but none of us knows, I know). I think actually, it's most likely to end up being them both for a while and then FIL alone for a while. At which point we're his only family and so it will be good to be here for him I think. We can't help them while they're in Devon.

OP posts:
Dinosaur · 15/04/2007 09:56

I think if you're not a very private person, that will help a lot.

Is there some reason why you all have to be in the same house rather than your in-laws just buying a bungalow near where you live now?

suzywong · 15/04/2007 09:58

IME, the fact it's put me on a low dose of ADs not withstanding (only because we have no annexe as yet), your last paragraph seals your intention and is admirable and worthy, and it will keep you going. It makes sense and its simple and its honest and unselfish.

Dinosaur · 15/04/2007 09:59

Yes, love conquers all .

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 15/04/2007 10:02

They could just move up here and buy separately, it's true. But they won't get any land, they'd get an ok 2 bed bungalow and they don't even need 2 beds. If we pool our resources we should get a v nice house - although we'd get an ok one if we bought alone too - and they should be able to trade the size of their living accom for a paddock. We can't buy right now as we have no deposit. With this we'd be going for a 50% mortgage. So we could just get them to move to this area, not with us, true but neither of us would get as much out of the deal.

OP posts:
puddle · 15/04/2007 10:05

I think it's potentially a massive thing to take on www. For the last 7 years of the GM's life (when MIL's youngest had just left home and therefore she should theroretically have been able to do more of her own thing)she was tied to the house a lot, they worrried about going away on holiday and leaving the GM on her own etc etc.

A lot of the caring responsibility devolved to my MIL because some of it was intimate care - helping with bathing, dressing etc and the GM couldn't bear for her son to do it.

Dinosaur · 15/04/2007 10:05

I think you should take legal advice about the care bit because if you own this property jointly with them, I don't see how you could be protected from having to sell it if one or both of them ended up needing full-time care and you couldn't afford to fund it otherwise. Do take legal advice.

I hope I'm not putting you off; I would never do it in a million years but that's probably just a personal and very selfish attitude. But both my own mother and her own mother went through nightmares with live-in MILs and it's never advertised itself to me as a good way to live .