Does anyone live with their ILS or have experience of doing so? What are the pitfalls/legal implications? Any tips?

[WideWebWitch]

MIL and FIL (dh's parents as opposed to ex DH's parents, who I talk about quite a bit!) live in Devon.

MIL has just been into hospital because she had a fall and we've just been told that it's unlikely she'll walk again FIL was told that he could more or less give up his life right now - he is very active, has sheep, does gardening for people, is out and about most days while MIL is usually in on her own - and he has been heartbroken at this news. (for all sorts of reasons, not just so he can get out and about!)

They have dh who is FIL's only child. MIL has a son (so dh's half brother) from a previous marriage. There is no other family. Half brother lives near PIL but isn't any help and doesn't see them often. My reason for explaining this is that their finances are organised thus:

House in MILS name, she owns it
Cash in FILS name, it's his
They are married. I've said to dh "are you sure?" and he says yes.

Their wills state:
FIL: Everything goes to dh, nothing to MIL. This is because FIL doesn't want his stepson, dh's half brother to get anything and if he leaves it to MIL she would then in turn leave it split between DH/her other child.
MIL: half to dh, half to other child.

FIL is keen to move to be nearer us. We have asked them if they want to move in with is but only if we can find a house with a) an annexe for them and b) a small paddock for FILS sheep. The idea is that they have a smaller living space but it's made up for by having a bit of land for FILS sheep. That way

• he doesn't have to give his life up as he can keep his sheep but be within home phone range of MIL. Wherever they live MIL will need some care. There is talk of the main house being sold to pay for that (they will get at least £4-500k for it)
• We can help, our cleaner can clean their house, we can shop online for them, can cook for them sometimes
• they get to see dd who is FILs only grandchild
• We get the benefit of FILS cash as he would pay 50% of the value of the house in cash and we would get a mortgage for the other half. We will get a substantially bigger house than we could afford alone as a result of this (although I would be quite happy to get our own house too, we'll get something nice if we buy alone too although it would take longer as we don't have a deposit)

So, what are the pitfalls? I know we will have to agree up front what the deal is with coming into each others houses and the amount of help we can give them and stuff but I'm ok with that. We both work ft oth and we have 2 children so there's a limit to the amount of time we have but at least we'll be able to look after MIL if FIL wants to go out alone and at least they'll see dd and at least we can help get them other help iyswim, if they need it.

Has anyone done this? How did it work? Is there a huge inheritance tax problem here? We can't afford for our house to be sold to pay for care so how can we be sure that won't happen? We only talked about it yesterday and in theory it's all a good idea if a bit scary. If FIL dies first we will be solely responsible for MIL but we know that. It's unlikely though, he's fit and active and younger but you never know.

Wise words welcomed. TIA. Sorry it's so long.

But it is a lovely and unselfish thing to do and will be wonderful for your kids to be around their grandparents and for them all to be more involved in each others' lives.

so, WWW, the verdict is
get yourself some legal advice and present intentions to BIL and think about having to wash MIL's nethers in the small hours.

(You see I know my MIL would go back to Malaysia to expire so I'm a bit covered there)

Thank you puddle, I do want to go in with my eyes wide open. I simply wouldn't be able to do that stuff because I work ft and will continue to do so. So we would have to factor in paying for care at some point.

Dino, you're right, I can't be in a position where our house had to be sold to pay for their care. We will be taking proper legal advice on it, I can't do it under those circumstances. But they have her house too and that would potentially be cash for care.

Thanks Suze, that's kind of you to say so. You know, I do look at my ex dh's family, who are Indian, and they've got this family business right imo. They all pitch in to help with all of it, children, aunts, ils, grannies. It's a community/family responsibility thing and v supportive.

pmsl at mils nethers!
Will she Suzy, are you SURE? Or will you be personally putting her on the plane when the time comes?

www my in-laws did have paid-for care and social services support. But unless your pockets are bottomless 24 hour care isn't not an option, unless the GM went into a home. They were on the verge of looking at otions for this when she died - having agonised about the decision for a long time as part of the agreement they had had was to enable GM to be in her own home for as long as they possibly could.

Anyway feel like the doom-laden bell tolling all over your thread so will stop!!

No, no, I need the reality Puddle! Thank you.

I believe Airmiles are transferable, WWW

Actually you have hit the nail on the head, I know I've done my fair share of whinging on here and I know that your ILs are not Asian, but when one looks at how the rest of the world extends the family unit to take care of the elderly - hopefull without the burdens put upon puddle's MIL - it does seem a pretty simple thing to get your head around.

I should start another thread shouldn't I? I do find it interesting, this whole business of how we look after the elderly. And about how we die. The BBC did a whole week of radio and tv programmes about it a year ago, it was interesting.

another thread re care of elderly parents here

And it's just occurred to me that we could buy somewhere with a large garden/paddock and put one of these in it! We could make it however they wanted it. Wow, that's an idea.

I can't tell you about living with them, but my brother bought into my parents' house to enable them to stay there when my dad was taken ill and they hit financial problems. They had it all agreed and an arrangement drawn up properly and my parents redid their wills obviously to address the issue of mine and my sister's inheritances. They had a 'get out' clause too which allows my brother to say 'no, I've had enough' and force a sale (which I hasten to add I don't think he would ever do unless he (and we) thought they were too infirm to stay there. They have also been very careful about what my dad needing residential care would mean to them, although really my brother did this so that they could stay in their house up to the point where dad needed more care, not really beyond.

Wrt care as they get older, you'll have to be prepared to carry quite alot of that. Dad gets a full care package at home - 4 visits a day plus he's entitled to some overnight care for mum to have a break - but in reality, my mum is still his carer (on top of working outside the home) and will be until he can't be at home anymore.

So really, what other people have said - think about all the possible endings to the arrangement before you do it, and get it all legally drawn up. Only you know whether you can live with them in close proximity.

Thank you MrsFP, v useful. I told dh about this thread and he will read it later.

No real advice but I do think you're very brave. You could potentially be living like this for 20 years or more. You'll be, ahem, early 60s - that would seem like a huge time commitment to me. I like my "mil" very much, very kind person etc, but there is no way I could contemplate this kind of arrangement. Would struggle with my own mother tbh and there are no issues there.

I do think the bil could be a fly in the ointment - what rights will you have to stop him demanding his inheritance when his mother dies?

i think we are missing the point of our wedding vows..Your pil should be prepared to care for your mil. also www how will your children be, i recall a friend of mine being quite resentful of her gparents sharing her home when she was a teenager- and she was quite a nice girl ,she missed the time alone with just her family iyswim..... i otoh would do it for my parents but not for my ils, two faced i know, but i know my dh feels the same way.
good luck

sorry just re-read my post and thought my opening line seemed rather harsh on pil, i know your aim is too take some strain off him,,,,,
sorry
sorry
sorry

BIL can have his inheritance when MIL dies IF it hasn't been spent on nursing care abd it could have been even if they stayed where they are. MILS money isn't being used at all to buy the house/annexe, it's FILS cash, not 'her' money from 'her' house. So it's FIL's cash he would have left to dh. And yes, you could argue joint marital assets but their wills say otherwise.

Good point Tinker. Well, if it's 20 years, it's 20 years. I think I can live with it but if it's hell when we do it then we'll have to think again. They will be in a separate annexe but still close to us, it's true.

Ex dh said 'you're behaving like an Indian DIL' which I take as the highest compliment.

OK, an update for anyone who's interested.

MIL is still in a nursing home. She and FIL have agreed they can't stay in their house as there's no heating and there are lots of stairs etc.

Last night FIL told DH that the half brother (so he's MIL's son from first marriage, no-one knows where his father is, it's never spoken about) said to MIL "you know x (me) is after your money don't you?"

MIL repeated this to fIL who told dh who told me. DH rang BIL last night and told him how furious he was.

I have said the offer's off. They can stay in Devon, move to this area (and if they do I will help, of course I will), do what they like but I don't want ANY financial involvement with them whatsoever. I've told dh that I will not accept a depostit from FIL, no matter what happens. I just don't want anything from them because I will not be accused of this. So there you go.

Actually, it IS easier for us to wait and buy alone in a year or 2. So that's what we'll do.

I don't ever want to speak to BIL again (not that we ever see him anyway).

In a way I hope they stay down there, that's the option that is the least effort for me. But it's not the best thing for them or dh. C'est la vie.

oh dear www. It sounds like he's (BIL) a bit jealous of the arrangements you've been making.

But are you sure this is what you want? How do FIL/MIL feel about it all?

Could you rise above his pettiness? - you seemed so excited about the whole prospect beforehand.

FIS, I think it's more tht he's worried he won't get any inheritance. I know that's an unkind thing to say but he's 49, has NEVER worked and dh thinks he's waiting for his half of MIL's house.

I've said they can leave all their joint money to a cat's home for all I care. Our offer wasn't made for financial reasons. In fact, we rent a perfectly nice house for not v much money, leaving us a decent disposable income for paying some debt off/going away to swanky hotels/having a nice life. Taking on a hefty mortgage in the near future would have meant considerable belt tightening anyway so maybe it's for the best.

he's obviously an arse - but surely you anticipated this reaction? I mean, why has he suddenly got to you and made you want to change everything - is it because he's got to your FIL/MIL (iyswim)?

You would have involved solicitors and sorted out all the inheritance issues anyway, wouldn't you. Or is the plan that your MIL changed her will?

I'm not trying to change your mind or anything but if this is what you and dh want AND it's what FIL/MIL want then I can't see why this eejit's opinion is getting in the way.

FIS, I am probably being a drama queen because I'm CROSS, but I feel that the only way I can PROVE, 100%, that I don't want anything is to just not do it.

MIL can be v funny about money too, she once gave dh £100 as a present and then demanded it back 'as I've decided it was a loan and it's a lot of money' a couple of weeks later. So maybe it is for the best.

And no, we wouldn't ahve done anything without lawyers/accountants and proper advice.

oh dear. families can be shite can't they?

we're doing something similar with my grandmother. her only child, my mother, died years ago. her husband, my grandad, died a couple of years ago. no other helpful family. my sister lives near me but is living an extended student life..ie has a crappy job and drinks a lot. sooo, grandma is coming to live with us.

we're selling our house, she's selling hers. we're getting a big gorgeous house for all of us. she'll have her own living room and bedroom.

re. the care thing.. my grandad had this in his last years of life. it was about £300 a month for carers to come in 4 times a day to wash him, turn him etc. luckily, my gran has a decent pension left to her from my grandad, so this is taken care of should she need it. i want to avoid her going into a home at all costs. she nursed my mother through 7 years of cancer, she then raised my sister and i, then she cared for my grandfather through his last years. there is no way i want her in a home.

the new house will be in our names, not grandma's. my sister was initially very cross that she was 'losing her inheritance.' however, what she has to remember is that my gran's estate as it is now does not belong to me and my sister, it belongs to my gran to do with as she wishes until her death. so it's how her estate is on death that then produces our inheritance. maybe that's harsh but its how i see it. i see it as a fair deal when i'll be the one taking care of her for what could be 10 years.