Two more questions...particularly for non-churchgoers (I'm not trying to convert you), but also church goers

[tortoiseSHELL]

1. Write down one line from the marriage ceremony.

1. If you DON'T regularly go to a church, is there something that is a barrier to you going? (Don't worry if you want to put it's all total crap, that's fine!).

And would changing the words from things like 'And with thy spirit' to 'And also with you' make any difference?

Thank you!

1. You may kiss the bride
2. I do go.
3. Our church already says "and also with you". Don't see what changing the words would achieve.

1. Do you -- take -- to be your lawful wedded blabla?

2.Too bloody theatrical,full of hypocrytical people,false language that isn't relevant today,dull,would rather be spending my time at home .

And I used to be a wannabe missionary when I was a teen.Think organised religion is all bollocks now.

Initially I could not think of any words from the marriage ceremony and then I saw all the responses and they are all familiar to me.

I don't go to church cos I had a bellyful of it growing up in a restrictive catholic home and attending a convent school. I have grave doubts about the value of religion and feel it causes more problems than it solves. When my mother comes to visit I go to a service and it is irritating, boring, full of people who are watching others with their pious metres and frankly I find it all a bit ludicrous.

If the church did more community work I would be more supportive of them although never a believer.

In response to last post , what greater thing can the church do for the community that teach a good moral and ethical frame work to live by. The church encourages you to be a better person, to do what you think is right. Now I'm not some crazed loon, I just feel that if everyone were that 'better person' the world would be a far happier place!

Till death us do part

I don't go to church because I don't follow a religion - I'm a non-believer.

1. Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today...

1. Yes, atheism.

And no.

Tortoise - haven't read all the posts but
a. spiritualist (from a baptist background)
b. into the arms of god (as long as you've been good)...............................

1. I ** take thee ***

1. The small-minded people - we always sit here type attitude and those people who scowl at boisterous children - committees etc

1. Don't have a preference for the traditional or the modern wording.

1. All that I have I share with you

1. I'm too busy at the weekend with my family. I don't think you need to go to church to be a good person, a good christian.

You can pray anywhere, be kind to people generally, live a good life without pitching up at 10am on Sunday. My nan taught me that so it must be true.

1. No.

1. We are gathered together today to witness

1. Agnosticism and a deep suspicion of organised religion.

1. Nope, actually makes it worse, aesthetically speaking.

I can't think of a line from the wedding ceremony,probably because we were married abroad without the traditional wording.

I do go to the family services at our village church every 3 weeks(we are only a tiny place so don't have a vicar at the minute)The dd's love going & made friendship bracelets today & learnt about William Wilberforce & slavery

I don't like the modern versions.The older ones had a beauty that is completely missing.I just can't do the modern Lord's prayer without looking at the service sheet to make sure I'm saying the 'right' thing.

1. Dearly beloved, we are gathered here

1. Too many hypocrites in church as I was growing up so I don't want to be part of that part of society

1. Nope

Just a thought, but in the interests of making this 'fair' ... suspect if you started a thread saying 'your local church is going to use proper old traditional language now -are you going to go?' suspect you'd get more nos than yes-es. Lots of people who've said it won't make a difference to their going arent planning to go anyway, iykwim.
Guess the key thing is what you feel the language signifies - are you aiming for 'beauty', a traditional poetic and perhaps a bit of myticism, or straightforwardness & understandabiltiy. Both have their advantages, imho.

I thought about that funnypeculiar, but actually that backs up my argument - I don't think the language has any bearing really on whether people go, hence changing it in the hope that it will boost numbers is mad. That was why I phrased the question like that, because it seems to me that there are far more important things the church could change that would have more of an impact. But they seem to be in denial about those things, and keep harping on about it being the traditional language being a problem!

Just to add to my earlier post, aside from being only a tiny believer, ministers/vicars/priests are the other reason I don't go.

I have listened to many, many ministers where I have to persuade my eyelids to sit to attention. They are often dull, uninspired talkers who seem to think that their robes and prescence should be enough to get us there. I have met one minister who was thoroughly interesting and inspiring and presented his point without using too much heavy language. It was that minister that made the service, marriage cermemonies and christenings I have been too. I couldn't tire of listening to him.

For me, if there was a great, cheery choir, who sang loudly and with their hearts, and an inspiring, happy minister with a tale to provoke thought through the week then I would be more enouraged to go. A cuppa and a chat with space for kids to meet thrown in and you have a happy congregation.

1. I call upon these persons here present to witness that I...
2. Don't go as I think organised religion is divisive. Belief by its nature is individual so for me the idea that signing up to someone else's doctrine will enhance my life seems nonsense. I don't beleive going to Church has anything to do with being religious - I consider myself religious and have some very strong beliefs.
3. Wording would make no difference.

1. To have and to hold, from this day onwards, for better, for worse, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish till death do us part

1. I'm a churchgoer and RC so we've already been 'updated' in the language we use and I'm hoping they're going to un-update it sometime soon. Especially where it's obviously a rather weak translation that misses out 90% of the point of the original text. So personally I'd like to see a more faithful translation. I don't know if it would make any difference to attendance, but it would be better anyway.

tortoise - I go to a church that regularly overflows, especially at family services. We're CofE and use all the approved sevices and language etc but we use a band for our music who tend to play worship music more than traditional hymns (though they'll still play those). We have childcare/sunday school for all over ones (except for on family sevices) for the first hour and whe the kids come back in there's stuff for them to joing in with and it's fun. Very little ones are allowed to run about and play and no-one frowns or tuts (I've been a bit embarrassed though when DS1 almost succeeded in pulling out the cables for the sound system).

I believe the success in our church, apart from being blessed of course, comes from an active effort to be inclusive, not cliquey, have fun in our worship yet still be sincere in our prayers. The balance is difficult to find but it can be achieved without compromising on the meaning of language or the truly important traditions of the church.

That's great liquidclocks. What I find hard is this idea that a church has to be like a business, where success is measured by numbers. I'm truly glad your church is going so well, but have to say for our family, I just wouldn't go to a church using worship music. There has to be room for both doesn't there? And that's what I sometimes feel our diocese doesn't 'get'. Making all the churches the 'same' will surely just shunt people round the churches a bit, not actually increase the 'total' number of people going to church.

I totally agree that being welcoming is important, but am sure that can be achieved within a traditional framework!

That's so right Tortoise - I like the music but I have friends who are much more into Taize type stuff and friends who like the traditional organs etc - there has to be choice.

I think the hugest thing is the welcoming atmosphere. I first went to the same church about 6 years ago and really didn't like it - I went for a year and got to know no-one. The numbers were dropping a bit and being in a university town the traditional influx of students was falling as they were going to a local independent church instead. I think while I was away (moved to Wales for a year) the church did some reflectiona and realised that they were so friendly and supportive to eachother that they weren't being open to new members and were appearing cliquey. My friend convinced me to try it again when I moved back and they were much more welcoming and open this time.

For richer for poorer, in sickness in health .....

I don't go because I believe religion is the reason for 90% of all the evil in the world.

do you X silly middle name X take Y silly middle name Y to be your lawful wedded wife?

Atheism

no