Two more questions...particularly for non-churchgoers (I'm not trying to convert you), but also church goers

[tortoiseSHELL]

1. Write down one line from the marriage ceremony.

1. If you DON'T regularly go to a church, is there something that is a barrier to you going? (Don't worry if you want to put it's all total crap, that's fine!).

And would changing the words from things like 'And with thy spirit' to 'And also with you' make any difference?

Thank you!

What are we not believing in?

Message withdrawn

Marriage or the church?
Or religion?
Or all three!

1. I give you this ring as a sign of our marriage
2. Just don't get round to it somehow...don't really believe in it anymore, but would kind of like the structure, iykwim
3. Obviously not ...

1. I call upon these people here present....
2. doesn't ring my bells, relate to my beliefs and seems to be a justification for a lot of prejudice views
3. no - don't know what it means

Funny, I got married in a church and none of those things were said. You can pick and choose you know. It's not that old fashioned these days.

Still don't know what's so objectionable.
Would you like some wine?

1. Write down one line from the marriage ceremony.

X will you take Y here present, for your lawful wedded wife/husband according to the rite of our Holy Mother.

1. If you DON'T regularly go to a church, is there something that is a barrier to you going?

i have never found a religion that i agree 100% with. each one has some things that i really dont like. plus, i have had many bad experiences with people who go to church a lot and claim to be very religious but look down on people and judge them and are really very vile, and i began to feel if thinking you are religious means you treat other people like they are less than you if they dont see things your way, well, i dont want to turn into that!

Right, read your post now tortoiseshell.

Humm, I can see it both ways. As a child/teenager I was very invovled in the church. Was in the choir of my local church (very high church, very traditionalist, lots of chanting and psalms) then also went to a less local non-traditional church which was quite happy-clappy, but also held gigs, had a very active young people's grp, went to things like Greenbelt (is that still going)? Lots of 9 o'clock worship style stuff. Very exciting and inspirational, at 16yo.

NOW I really appreciate the calm, tranquility and safety of the 'old' style, but that's b/cos I know it inside out. But DH (who was raised very much outside the church) finds it intimidating and excluding. I also find that traditional churches, in general, have a 'traditional' attitude to kids (ie seen not heard), whereas more progressive churches tend to make more obvious efforts to be inclusive.
Does that make sense?

I don't believe in God.

and no, changing the words wouldnt make any difference.

And I agree with pointydog - am actually considering going back to church for exactly this reason...

I am married btw, but I buggered off abroad and had a civil ceremony

And, no, I didn't have a wedding lsit, or guests or anything. We got married because we were/are committed to each other and for the legal security of "marriage/civil union".

funnypeculiar - that does make sense, which is why I don't think a church that is basically traditional will become more welcoming, especially to kids, by changing the odd thee or thou. But it's easier to say 'our numbers are a bit down because we say thee and thou' rather than 'our numbers are down because we ourselves need to make more effort to welcome families' or whatever the problem actually is!

Still don't get your point.
If you are not a church-goer then why get het up about what goes on in a church?

1. as long as we both shall live.
2. Undecided about God, and organised religion makes it harder for me to have any sort of faith - for one thing there are so many interpretations of the Bible and each different denomination is, of course, right (?!) - which is very confusing to me. So churchgoing would mean that I arbitrarily decide that I simply believe one theory to be true.
3. I do like the poetry of the more old-fashioned wording, but I am a romantic.

I think one of the problems is that for people who prefer the contemporary language there are hundreds of churches/cathedrals to choose from. For people who prefer traditional language there are very few, and if they too go over to contemporary, then there is no-where left for those who prefer the traditional.

Perhaps I should read the OP?
What a pain!

Rhubarb, is your last post directed at me? I can't tell. But anyway, ftr, I am not het up about what goes on in churches.

OK have just read the OP.

To have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others until death do us part.

I XXX take thee YYY to be my lawful wedded husband.

I attend Church sporadically although regualarly in my younger days. No real barrier although DH would not go, and life usually catches up with me (eg DS's birthday party today).

1. No difference whatsoever.

No WCL, not to anyone. Just sticking my nose in and not reading the OP!

1. I now pronounce you husband and wife.

1. Too much of a faff to get motivated to do there.

1. No.

Ah, OK, cos I was a bit confused myself

Am going to organise all these results, but I think overall from this and the other thread, there are a significant number of people who actively prefer the old, and virtually nobody (there are one or two) who say that perhaps the thees and thous put them off. Which I think fairly conclusively proves that using traditional language isn't the reason for falling congregations, and changing to contemporary won't suddenly revitalise them. And also that there SHOULD be a place for traditional language - unless we all suddenly have to have one size fits all churches!

Thank you all so much for your answers!

lol Rhubarb!