Two more questions...particularly for non-churchgoers (I'm not trying to convert you), but also church goers

[tortoiseSHELL]

1. Write down one line from the marriage ceremony.

1. If you DON'T regularly go to a church, is there something that is a barrier to you going? (Don't worry if you want to put it's all total crap, that's fine!).

And would changing the words from things like 'And with thy spirit' to 'And also with you' make any difference?

Thank you!

nappyaddict - is it the thees and thous that make it harder? I'm interested because for example old and new Lords Prayers leave the hard words 'Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name' becomes 'Our Father in Heaven, Hallowed be your name'.

I'm genuinely interested, because we want to understand the position the church is taking on this!

1. ... or forever hold your peace

1. I don't believe in God.

to be honest it's not just the thees and thous. for a long time at school i didn't even know what hallowed meant. it was just something we recited every day without knowing the meaning of it. am i right that it means holy/sacred?

I just remember attending a CofE every week for over a year and then went elsewhere and suddenly found out why Jesus died and yes that God actually loved me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Love, honour and cherish
2. I'm trying to find a church at the moment (made more difficult by small baby and sleep deprivation so it's difficult to get up and going on a Sunday morning when dh is about to look after ds - much more tempting to sleep!). I find the traditional language/hymns comforting, also am alienated by very hardline attitudes on biblical teachings - a couple of churches that I visited for a few services seemed very light on love/forgiveness and very heavy on judgement.

I don't mind churches updating the language and also don't mind that more and more seem to be using modern hymns and praise bands. Don't mind all the powerpoint either but it doesn't attract me in any way. Have had arguments with my parents about all this though and their view is that if I'd been going to church all this time then these changes would have all seemed more gradual, which is a fair point. I have a small, quiet, fragile faith though so I guess I'm looking for the comfort of the familiar.

a) 'til death do us part
b) am an atheist
c) but paradoxically, possibly, am quite keen on ritual being set apart from everyday language...that's why poetry works, after all, and think that a language set a little apart from everyday vernacular heightens the senses. But when I was a child I enjoyed the fact that my Methodist lay-preacher grandad would then do a fully 'contactable' and understandable sermon in everyday language, after the language of the hymns. I enjoy the language of religious services, the architecture of places of worship - of many denominations. Who wouldn't - it has generally been designed with beuty in mind.

Well the churchgoers have got back from church now...

1. You may now kiss the bride ???

2. I do go

3. What makes the difference for us is a church service that is friendly for families & children. It doesn't matter if we get there late or leave early. The kids run around during the worship and flit between joining in and playing. Nobody glares at us if the kids make a noise. Most of the adults in the church will watch out for them / dance with them / pick them up and cuddle them, which takes the pressure off me. There are days when I'd like to just stay home, and we go because the kids insist.

But then, we are very happy clappy.

1 I now pronounce you man and wife

2 because a lot of people who attend are hypocritical and not that christian in their day to day lives

3 went to a service with dd but they had cut all the ceremony from it and it was to all intents and purposes a badly pulled together cbeebies production.

I feel harsh now but church needs to have some ceremony and some meaning that people take into everyday life

"What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." We were married by a Franciscan monk who knew something of our family circumstances, and despite being a very soft-spoken and mild-mannered person, he thundered that line out. I'll never forget that moment.

I am angry and confused about the church, so I always feel uneasy and disrespectful being in one. ALthough I do find the trappings and the history fascinating and very beautiful in some respects.

I don't really understand how any intelligent female could put her intellect and selfworth on hold to the degree that would be required for me to swallow all of the horseshit that Christianity entails. I wish I could, I miss the feeling of comfort and security and the beauty of hymns/stained glass/the imagery of Christianity. And the stillness and surety which I don't have any more.

A) to love and cherish
B) churches are beautiful buildings but i can't help but think of all those poor people years ago who worked like dogs to build them whilst the rich priests etc kept telling them they were gonna build in hell etc. Just my opinion.

a) those whom God hath joined together, let no man put asunder
b) We do, most Sundays, it gives us an hour to reflect on the week and reorient ourselves
c) Am a bit of a bells and smells BCP fiend so ritual and music important. Find bad modern music and clunky liturgy off-putting and at its worst patronising (if we can sing a horrible modern ersatz classic Gloria we can manage Merbecke IMO).

Snig, our church was built in 1900 by a prosperous local builder, out of factory-made red brick. I don't think oppression or child labour played a large part

1. In sickness and in health

1. I don't believe in god.

1. Write down one line from the marriage ceremony. Without looking at other posts I can't think of 1 line.

1. If you DON'T regularly go to a church, is there something that is a barrier to you going? (Don't worry if you want to put it's all total crap, that's fine!). I don't believe in a god or gods.

And would changing the words from things like 'And with thy spirit' to 'And also with you' make any difference? Wouldn't make any difference at all - pure semantics and a prop for people who can't stand the idea that life is life and nothing else.

I prefer the Latin mass type of thing, like the ceremony. Hate modern services.

until death do us part

I don't go to church because, although I wrestle with the idea of believing in God, some of the specific beliefs of even the C of E are beyond me. I have, on occasion, been to Evensong, as the liturgy doesn't demand too much of that from me.

and so, if I did go to church, I would find one that used the traditional prayerbook/sung evensong rather than modern language. I really hate all of this 'making religion accessible' stuff; If I am to have any kind of religion, I want something awe-inspiring, poetic, mystical. Have absolutely no desire for God as some kind of mate. I am more likely to become a nun than to join some kind of modern, evangelical church...

until death do us part

I don't go to church because, although I wrestle with the idea of believing in God, some of the specific beliefs of even the C of E are beyond me. I have, on occasion, been to Evensong, as the liturgy doesn't demand too much of that from me.

and so, if I did go to church, I would find one that used the traditional prayerbook/sung evensong rather than modern language. I really hate all of this 'making religion accessible' stuff; If I am to have any kind of religion, I want something awe-inspiring, poetic, mystical. Have absolutely no desire for God as some kind of mate. I am more likely to become a nun than to join some kind of modern, evangelical church...

I went to a church recently that 100% modern, incldung a sermon right up to the minue on the theme of "am I bovvered".
Was terrible. I'm not a Christian, but it wasn't even the Christianity I don't believe in. The attempts to update it were just silly.
Modern Christians suffer a huge disadvantage.
Centuries ago, they could call upon the best minds available for music, architecture, and of course the written and spoken word. The King James Bible is pretty much the defining work of the English language, and itself a modernisation.
The ramblings of the bronze age Hewbrews were deeply unattractive and dull, and the New Testaments are what happens when the kids who didn't pay attention in class try to cross random bits of Greek aqnd Zoroastrian deism. The English fixed it up big time.
So modernisation can work.
If you're smart.
Not saying there aren't smart Christians, but the limited numbers and the absence of the most talented poeple because they are "sinners" isn't doing them any favours.
At their height Christians had no problem whatsoever in hiring loudly gay people like Michaelangelo.
Imagine the fuss if a gay composer like Sir Elton John was asked to provide a few tunes, yet he has written the most popular hymn of the last 30 years. The other popular modern hymn is by Cat Stevens, who isn't exactly Christian no more.

1. I will (not I do!)

2. Loads of reasons. Not keen on organised religion. Have found a lot of religious people quite intolerant ime. No church would accept ds1's behaviour, so it would mean half the family doing one thing and the other half sat at home. Disabled swimming club is on a Sunday morning. I prefer the values around Buddhism.

ok.

I know a couple of people (and I would bet a lot of money there are many many more like this) who started going to church regularly for the social aspect. They want to belong. They want a community.

Speaking as an atheist with a marketing background, churches should focus on the social community side of things. Family friendly policies, outings, using halls for youth drama groups etc.

Really truly.

Uuuurrrggghhh.

1. 'till death us do part.

1. I don't want to be hypocritical by going, if I don't exactly believe in it!

In answer to changing the words - make a difference to......? Going - I doubt it.

1.in sickness and in health
2.go to Church parade once a month(2 different churches) one is fine but the other is long and I don't get most of the service.

Changing the words annoys me when its things like the Lords Prayer

1. I now pronounce you husband and wife.

1. The barrier is that I don't believe

1. And no, because I still wouldn't believe.