A survey I'm doing - please take a minute to answer 2 questions, thanks!

[tortoiseSHELL]

1. How would you describe yourself with reference to religion? (i.e. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist, Pagan etc)

1. Write down one sentence, phrase, or passage that you associate with church. It could be something from the bible, could be part of a hymn, could be something from a regular service, a wedding service - whatever!

Thanks very much - I'll tell you why later, but can't really yet as it might affect your answers!

1 atheist
2 nice hymns

but it's not about going 'street' - it's about making the services into a language where Joe Bloggs on the street can at least understand what is being said - even if they don't believe it........

1 agnostic (ex-catholic, heading towards atheism )

2 "The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you. The Lord lift up the light of his countenance upon you and give you peace."

I can feel my heart rate slowing down whenever I think of that blessing. It has more to do with a school chaplain who was immensely comforting and gentle than with God himself, though. I kind of miss that feeling while still thinking it's a pile of old hokum, IYSWIM.

1. How would you describe yourself with reference to religion? (i.e. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist, Pagan etc)

CofE (high church)

1. Write down one sentence, phrase, or passage that you associate with church. It could be something from the bible, could be part of a hymn, could be something from a regular service, a wedding service - whatever!

The peace of the Lord be with you.

PAGAN
GOD BE IN MY HEAD AND IN MY UNDERSTANDING

What I mean fannyannie, is that there is very little point in 'updating' the language, if it doesn't actually clarify the meaning, which is what we perceive as happening. I also think that the traditional is more familiar to people who have never been to church, as it is what is always quoted in the 'popular' media - a soap opera wedding will generally be secular or traditional words.

And I just don't think changing a few thees and thous is going to bring the congregations flooding back!

yes - but most churches get visitors to the church - don't they??? I know we certainly do. There's more chance of a visitor becoming a regular if they can at least understand what is being said to them and what they're singing about! (as in language - not beliefs!).

Of course the 'meaning' of it only becomes clear(er?) once you start to develop your beliefs and grow in faith.

1. Agnostic erring towards atheist.

1. We are gathered here today............

1. Deist
2. Exceptionally hard seats and very long sermons during my childhood

tortoiseSHELL whats your views?

and - if you think about it - had some parts of the church not decided to 'modernise' and translate the bible into English and write some liturgies in English (rather than Latin/Hebrew) most of the people that have posted on this thread probably wouldn't be able to write down a sentence in English (and therefore that they actually understood - even if only vaguely) from Church........

I'm not against modernisation at all. And I think there is room for both. But it seems a shame to take a church that uses traditional liturgy, and the congregation are happy with this, and introduce modern liturgy on a pretext of being 'more accessible to visitors' - I don't believe the congregation would increase by 1 person by changing the liturgy, whereas I DO think it would increase by the church being welcoming, speaking to people after the service, being a relevant voice in today's society - I think they should be really pushing the green agenda for example - and I suspect litugy is picked on because it is an easy target.

My 5 year old understands traditional words, and over Christmas spent every evening listening to a disc of Kings Cambridge, particularly the King John readings, and I think church leaders are quite patronising assuming people can't understand thees and thous.

It would be more understandable if they started from scratch, but they seem to be simply replacing thee with you, and much of the poetry is lost. No-one would suggest replacing a beautiful old church with a concrete and glass construction, simply because that is what the architecture of today dicates.

That's my view anyway, I've been really interested to read everything on here - thank you so much!

Agnostic
Judgemental and prejudicial

lol tortoise - the congregation in any traditional church (regardless of congregation) are always going to dislike the idea of change....that's the nature of it.

"How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb?
Ten
One to change the bulb and nine to argue that they prefer an old one!" .

But I do agree that changing the words to make it more accessable is only the icing on the cake - and other things need to change as well.

1. Christian

2.In Christ Alone My Hope is Found

it's not just a 'fear of change' though - if you believe the traditional to be better, then you obviously want to keep it, and there are plenty of churches that do the contemporary. If you like traditional there is very little choice of somewhere to go.

I also don't really get this 'it's more accessible' - we've scrutinised lots of the contemporary services we've done, and can't understand half of it, and we are well versed in 'churchiness' - how someone who's trying the church out will manage I don't know! I actually think the traditional is more accessible because it's what visitors expect to hear when they go into the church. But it is a matter of opinion.

I wouldn't not play Durufle, Bach or Messiaen because most people listen to Cold Play and McFly.

but some of it is fear of change - when our vicar started making changes 3/4yrs back people were horrified - threatened to leave etc etc, now some of those very same people have actually brought new people into the church and actually admit to enjoying the services.

Many may say "if it's not broke......" - but then how is the church supposed to move forward to cater for future generations if it insists in staying in the past??? I guess we're lucky at our church that you can have any manner of services - from the traditional sung Evensong and "said" communion, through to the Family Holy Communion (with slightly more modern 'jargon' in it), Praise/Worship services, Taize, Evening Worship etc etc. Since the wider vareity of services have been introduced (although we've actually cut the number of services a month as we don't have evening service every Sunday) our Congregation has grown.......and in interestingly it's been more families with children coming.....but then I guess Some (but not all) of that is down to other 'modernisations'.

Anyhow - must go - have to go and play the organ for the first of the United Lent Services - which our church is hosting.

1. nothing
2. the colour purple and cinderella ( dd thinks all churches are her castle)

1 Practising Catholic
2 Body of Christ

Same as ThisFrog:

1. Christian

2.Be not afraid, I go before you always; Come follow me and I will give you rest

1. Lapsed RC

2. Go in peace to love & serve the Lord.

1.Agnostic
2.The Lords prayer old version

Christian

She stood breast high amid the alien corn.