Witch of a mil law strikes again!!

[jmg1]

Lots of you know some a bit my crap story. Anyway after my DP died, her Mother and I agreed that we would not bring up the subject of their Mother to the children but if they mention her we would answer their questions as and when. Today the witch was here and after she left my DS age 5 was cryng and I initially thought it was because he was over tired, I then realised that he was really upset and he explained it was becuase mil had been talking about his Mummy and showing them pictures. I would never try to block their wonderful Mother's memory from them but my theory is why discuss and dwell on something that upsets them, why not wait for them to mention it when it suits them. I know this is a matter of opinion and all children would react differently to the whole scenario. But my kids are doing well all things considered.

I am annoyed at the witch for going against what we had agreed in order to make her feel better.

I have suggested that she comes every two weeks instead of every week and she is saying that I am blocking her out of their lifes. Which I do not want to do.
If push comes to shove how often is a Grandmother entitled to see Grandchildren?
Am I being unreasonable?

You're not being at all unreasonable. Sounds more like your mil is being unreasonable. If I were you I'd give her a bell when the kids are asleep and tell her how her 'stunt' today upset your ds and remind her that you'd both agreed not to mention it unless the kids brought the subject up. Good luck.

You're not being unreasonable. You are their father and you should have the final say in how this is handled. If she can't accept it or deal with it like you had agreed, then she does lose the right to see them so often.

Every two weeks is often enough for a grandmother to see her grandchildren.

What's really bad is that she knew they would be upset and didn't tell you what she had done so that you could actively do something about it when she left.. even picking up where she had left off or whatever. It's not supposed to be a secret between your kids and her who their mother was (in the sense of what she was like, etc)... which is what she is making it out to be. You're not making it a secret! Please please don't read that that way.

I think you're in the right wrt discussing your wife. Sounds like you're doing a great job with the kids; trust yourself.

Sounds like the MIL doesn't understand that children have feelings, too. And doesn't respect what you asked her to do. Can't say I would blame you at all in how you're feeling and reacting right now!

But you don't want to cut your kids off from their gran, either. I think every 2 weeks is reasonable until she can prove that you can trust her again. And tell her that's the problem, she's broken your trust. My kids don't have contact with their grandparents nearly that often, btw.

jmg1, i dont know much about your situation with regards to your late partner, but your MIL was bang out of order for doing this. in some ways i can understand wanting to make sure her daughter is remembered by her grandchildren, and i;m sure they wont ever forget her or not know who she is, but to upset a child is not the way to go about it. Just try and make sure your children know they can come to you to talk about it, and its not secretivly like you MIL has done today. best of luck honey and love to the kiddies.

You don't sound unreasonable to me. It sounds as though you're putting the children first while she puts herself first.

Every 2 weeks sounds pretty reasonable too. My ds's see my mother either once a week or once a fortnight. They see my MIL even less than that.

As far as I know grandaparents have not visitation right granted by law, though they may ask for them, in a way it is courtesy in your part to allow her to stay in touch.

I woould suggest to talk about what happened today to her and try to get her to remember that you have agreed in somehting, is she continues to upset your children regularly I would consider to restict contact to less visit or probably just some special days of the year.

Jmg, I think you're absolutely right to be angry at this and by the sounds of it you've hit the nail on the head when you say she was doing it simply to make herself feel better.

Of course MIL wants her daughter remembered but you had an agreement and she has broken it, upsetting your ds in the process - it's completely out of order. Does she know that your ds was upset - maybe she would be a bit more understanding if she knew this had upset him?

It is a bit of a tricky one in some ways because you certainly don't want to distance your kids from their grandma and vice versa (and without knowing the details of your situation I guess for MIL they provide a strong 'link' to memories of her daughter?) but she has to understand the ground rules. This probably isn't much help but hope you can talk to her and sort this out. Best wishes

I did speak to her about it and she comes out with a different story than DS, that is part of the problem with her, she has never done anything wrong and her version of a story is always different to the other person whoever that may be.
It is so sad because there is no one else to comes and see the kids, my Mother and sister died last year, I have no contact with my Father and my late DP's Father is still in Scotland and is the ultimate bully alcoholic arse anyway.
I really want to move somewhere and make a new start but at the moment I cannot face the logistics of moving with 3 under 5's and 2 dogs on my own. Maybe I should just go for it. I can't even focus properly on my business anymore, luckily it is not of a very time consuming nature.
I am also trying to accept that I should stay on my own for the rest of my life, has anyone else consciously made such a decision?

I dont know much about your situation jmg, but you sound like a great Dad and you must be knackered looking after 3 kids!!

Why have you resigned yourself to staying on your own?

I think that if your MIL wants to talk about her daughter to the children then you should sit and talk about how to go about it and do it together. She is bang out of order in what she did and the fact she did it in such an underhand way makes it worse.

jmg1, that was so underhand of your MIL. No wonder you are angry with her. You say she came out with a different story to ds, but the upshot is she upset him, so it doesn't matter what her story is - hope you pointed that out to her.

It's your decision what you say to your children about their mother, and your decision if you want to wait till they ask questions, but I fear for you. If you are still living in the same area, isn't there an increasing risk that someone will say something to your children as they all get older? And can you really ever trust your MIL to keep quiet? I assume you talked this through with her and she'd agreed not to mention your wife. But then she did it - even bringing out the photos - and not only that, she is convinced she is in the right. No apology, just denial. In your shoes I'd find it extremely difficult to trust her in this again.

You made a decision not to discuss things with your children, but that doens't mean you have to stick with it forever. If you decided to tell your children more, there would be less reason to block your MIL's visits I assume. As you say she is the only visitor your children have. I don't know what I'd do and if your MIL is a witch in all sorts of ways, then perhaps she is best kept at arms length. I'm just saying that I think you need to weigh things up again, now that you can't rely on your MIL to keep silent.

If someone is upsetting your children, regardless of who they are, you are well within your rights to minimise contact with them. You had an agreement with your MIL, she disregarded it. I do think that you need to be honest with her and tell her that she upsets the children when she behaves this way, and that this is the reason you think it might be better to have a bit more breathing space between visits.

A move might be a good idea, just to give you all a fresh start. Does it have to be a major move, though? How about finding a new house in the same area? That way the kids still know the neighbourhood, still see their friends etc. but you are still moving forward with life.

I can understand if you want your MIL to still have contact with your children as they are related and, sadly, she is the only relative that they are able to see. However, if the relationship is not good for them, or you by the sounds of it then it may be better to distance yourself and your children from her. From your previous threads about her she is either still suffering with her grief or has mental health problems.

With regard to resigning yourself to staying on your own, do you think this is due to fear of being hurt? My dh died 2 years ago and though I feel I'm now ready to move on, I am also afraid
that the next person I fall in love with will be also taken from me. I know that's not likely but can't help feeling that way sometimes. As you have also lost your mum and sister I expect this feeling is magnified.

Are you still in the same house that you shared with your DP? I moved house last year and found it quite therapeutic really. You do take your memories with you but I found that I was able to leave some of the bad memories behind. You cannot run away from your past, it goes with you but it did help me to move. hth.

jmg1 - I totally understand how upset and betrayed you must feel by your MIL. No wonder you are feeling really mad at her. However, I can empathise with her and could see how she would find it virtually impossible to stick to your wishes even if she wanted to. Her link with your children is her daughter and to not openly keep acknowledging that link and re stressing it with your children must feel like passively allowing that "validation" as gandmother to go unchecked and possibly even start to become forgotten and less important as their lives move on.It might even feel like "ignoring" your DPs presence is "betraying" her in some way, regardless of how illogical that is, emotions aren?t always logical.
Also, I wonder if it stems from a deeper insecurity that she can see you and your children starting to put your lives back together bravely and begin to move on and yet wonders where she fits into the "new" picture of the future. If I were her I would be so hurt after my daughter died and the idea of losing touch and not being able to "control" my own level of involvement in my grandchildren?s lives would be unbearably hard to handle - regardless of legal rights, best wishes for your family to cope and move on etc. etc. To be told suddenly that the one day a week that you could be with them and was a bit of an "oasis" was changing to only once a fortnight could have been devastating for her (just guessing herre, don?t know - but I would have been really hurt and upset). I am not saying your decisions are wrong, just trying to see it from her point of view.

I know MILs are hard work at the best of times (mine is extremely tough to cope with, very matriacharchal, bossy and thinks she still "rules" over my DH) and you have so much to cope with. Perhaps the way to cope with her is to try to let as much of her irritating and negative behaviour "go" for the sake of family "harmony" and give her a bit of extra reassurance that she is still their gandma and is always going to be part of their lives whatever happens but that you need to find a balance and move on at the same time. You aren?t going to change the way she is now and although you have no legal obligations, I know you are a nice guy from all your sensitive and caring posts and so am sure that you want your children to develop a reasonable relationship with her for their sakes, if not hers. Keep trying, keep smiling through it and keep posting xxx

I think I am trying to make a conscious decision to stay on my own for various reasons.
It involves being hurt, but also feelings of guilt because DP took her own life, therefore I must not inflict myself on anyone again, don?t let anyone get emotionally involved with me. I think I am a difficult person to get to know (barriers etc) my DP knew me more than anyone ever has.
I have been on my own for 18 months and I am starting to believe it would be easier to stay that way and focus on the children's and my life.

Part of the reason for moving is because we had recently moved here when DP died and I do not really know anyone around here. Everyone seems to be happily married and not keen on inviting a single person to do anything. I really miss living in Chelsea but central London is not the most practical place to bring up 3 little ones, that is why we moved here. Some people say if I would be happier there, it would be better for the children in the longer term. I have been considering trying to learn French or Italian and then going to live over there. As you can see I don?t really know what to do!

Of course I am aware that mil must be feeling terrible about loosing her daughter, her need to see the children and that it is important for them to see her. When she is here we do not speak to each other and I think the children will pick up on that when they are older. I have been trying to turn a blind eye about her and must continue to do so I guess she just got to me a bit more than usual yesterday.

In the past I tried so much to talk to mil about things, in a naive way I thought we could help each other, but I realised she is living in total denial about her life and therefore also her daughters life. No matter how you try to talk to her you can hardly ever finish a sentence before she interrupts you and disagrees with what you are saying, no matter what you are talking about. It is as if she feels too important or insecure to let anyone else have an opinion. As I have mentioned before, my late DP told me in 1988 that her Brother raped her when she was 14, DP only mentioned this to her Mother 2 years before she died, but mil denies that DP ever mentioned it, yet when DP was alive mil told me that DP had told her. DP was a very honest and loyal person and would never have made up such a story, who would!

Gosh, you still have such a lot to cope with and 18 months really isn't that long especially given your personal circumstances. I knew my dh was dying - that doesn't/hasn't really made it any easier but what you, your children and your MIL have suffered is totally mind blowing (for want of a better phrase, sorry). I'm sure, in time, you'll be open to new opportunity's but if by staying on your own you think you'll be happier then your children probably will be too. When and if it's right though, you'll know (I think). What is it about Italy I wonder, that's where i'm planning on moving too if my next course of ivf fails. After 4 attempts at ivf with 2 m/c in the past year, don't think it's far off!

Sorry about your ivf failures delgirl, keep optimistic maybe it will work out this time.

I used to own a Satellite & Broadcast Services Business and we had a contract for 10 months with RAI the Italian state broadcaster. I really thought it was a nice country good food, wine and found the people friendly. Languages are not one of my strong points though, if I spoke the language I would make plans to go there.

What adds to the problem with mil is that the easiest thing for her to do was to blame me for DP taking her own life. Try and imagine - we have just moved to a new town and my soul mate, Mother of our 3 children, the best friend I ever had takes her own life, at the time my Mother was dying of cancer and my sister was spending mon - fri in a psychiatric ward, both 120 miles away. I am there with 3 kids age 1, 2 and 3, + 2 dogs to look after. Within 3 months of DP dyng, my sister and Mother are dead, I was in shit state and nearly lost the plot and all mil can do is blame me for dp taking her own life. I am finding it very hard to forgive her. I found her a rather difficult person before all that so iamagine how hard it is to even look at her now.

How you are able to cope is beyond my comprehension. I feel I have been through so much. My dh was diagnosed with cancer 4 months after we married and we'd only been together for a year before that and followed by the 2 m/c's this past year, I find it very hard to function sometimes. What you are going through is unbelievable and your MIL has no right to make you feel any worse, Sure, she's grieving too probably but that is no excuse at all. She probably feels guilty as I assume part of your dp's problems stem from what happened to her when she was younger do you think? She is trying to shift the blame. In my humble opinion, I really don't think anyone can or should be blamed for someone else taking their own life. I know people will say that as a grandparent she should be able to see your children and I understand that your children probably wish to see her but not if each time she is going to upset them or you. Time will heal, but I honestly think you should see as little of her as possible, for your own sake. And, if at all possible, supervise her visits so that the children aren't left on their own with her. If a relationship is bad for you and your children, what is the point of keeping it going? Since my dh has died, I have tried to steer clear of relationships that no longer make me happy instead of just putting up with it and getting upset. It's not easy but I feel that I feel bad enough without being with people who want to make me feel worse iyswim. My SIL for one! And that's not your sis Spacemonkey, it's dh's.

oh, and i'm with you on the great food, wine and gorgeous people, oh and fantastic scenery and way of life!

JMG, your situation is so tragic. I really do feel for you. But as you say MIL is the only relative they see apart from you, it would be very difficult to break that contact. As Stripeymouse says, it must be hard for her not to be able to acknowledge her daughter with her grandchildren. I know she broke your agreement but can also see that it must have been very difficult for her to stick to it. Would it be possible to make sure you are around when MIL is with the kids, so you know what's going on? Or is this the only time you get a break? I hope I understand what you mean about not upsetting the children and waiting until they are older to talk about their mummy, but could you bring yourself to make a new agreement, which allows MIL to talk about mummy but in a 'routine' kind of way: 'Oh, your mummy used to like to play with crayons as well', or something? Just treating mummy as part of the family without making a big thing of it and bringing out photos?
Apologies if that is crass, or would be too much for you/the kids to cope with now when it's all still so raw.
Sounds as if you are doing a fantastic job. And please try not to blame yourself too much (easier said than done, I know, but practice does help, really). You certainly don't need guard against 'inflicting' yourself on anyone else, as you said. You sound like a wonderful father and, one day when you are ready for another relationship, the woman you choose will be bloody lucky.
HTH

What do you think the children want here? Do they love their grandma? Do they look forward to her visits? If so, then I really do think it might be best for them if you bite the bullet and continue to allow her in their lives freely. You are both in pieces with grief right now and it is suprisingly normal I think to look for someone to blame however crazy that might be. If she didn't blame you, she might have to blame herself, which would be unbearable to her. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be in your situation, but a loving grandma might be important to the kids right now. I do think you need to sit down and really try to talk to her about how you talk about your wife to the children. Have you had any counselling? How did your MIL explain the situation. Is it possible that your son was upset just as much by the fact that his mother has gone as by the conversation - ie the fact, not so much the presentation of it.
She doesn't sound the most reasonable of people, it's true, but if she really loves the kids and they love her, and you and she are her only family, it might be worth trying again and again to make it possible for her to be in their lives.

I think eddm has a point about mentioning mummy in a routine, easy way. I do know families who have lost a parent and done this and it does seem to have helped the children to accept the situation without upsetting them.

Message withdrawn

With regard to what the children want, mil comes to see them once a week, they do look forward to seeing her, if they didn't it would be a no brainer, this sounds terrible but you could take almost anyone and if they came to see the children once a week they would look forward to seeing them, more so because there is no one else.
Yes DP's childhood affected her, she tried to take her life when she was a child and I guess she never really moved on, her Father was a bully, had numerous affairs and even had a child from another woman while he still was with DP's mum. DP's Mother and Father are very overpowering and opinionated people who had a violent relationship.
When I realised mil was blaming me for dp's death I mentioned some of these things + her brother raping her and said do you think these things would have affected a sensitive girl. Mil said dp had a wonderful childhood and she has pictures of her smiling. I said I have pictures of her smiling alongside her children whom she adored, pictures taken one week before she took her own life!
I will talk to mil again, but it is so so hard to have a rational conversation with her.
One good thing is that my lovely children are doing well and I still believe I can give them more love and stability than I had or their Mother had. It is sad, I guess my whole life has been sad, but I am strong and have a positive streak.
When we moved here I said to dp I do not know how true happiness should feel but I have never felt so happy as I do being here with you and the children, Within 8 Months my dp, my mother and sister were dead.
Sorry I am rambling on, thanks for listening and posting!

It sounds a dreadful upbringing - and I'm not surprised you don't want your dp's father and brother anywhere near your family. I think it is very clear that the reason your dp felt as she did is nothing to do with you or the children but the legacy of a truly terrible early life. You mustn't feel as if you can't have another relationship because of it. And it sounds as if you are doing a hard job - raising three young kids alone - brilliantly and giving them the best possible start in horrible circumstances.
I am sure your MIL is extremely difficult - she must, I'm sure, feel secretly very guilty that she didn't do enough (to put it mildly) to protect her daughter. I'm sure deep down she knows how responsible she is but cannot bear to face that head-on, and appallingly,chose to blame you instead. People who feel guilty often behave very badly. However, I'm sure she loves the kids, so that's what makes it so hard. If you do talk to her again, it might be a strategy to, instead of talking about the awful, hurtful past and your dp's childhood (refuse to engage if your MIL tries to raise it herself) and instead keep repeating that you want a civil relationship for the sake of the kids and to agree a strategy whereby their mother's memory is kept alive in a way that keeps the children as happy as possible.
Good luck.