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Original poster

is this acceptable?

28 replies

baldrick · 11/06/2004 17:11

Was at work yesterday and witnessed a 5 minute fight between my boss and his father.

A few of the circumstances, his Father lives at home with him, wife and new baby,....one of his staff members has just gone off with a bad back for 3 weeks, his dad's about to go on holiday for a week, and his wife's about to return to work leaving his father who is 67 btw to look afetr the baby 4 days a week. (his father feels taken for granted and blew up when boss accused him of damaging a lance for hosepipe)....There was a lot of hard hitting, abusive language and I think someone has got some hellish bruises..

As some of you may know I do enjoy my job in landscape gardening, but I do think my boss has too much on and is under stress, hence refusal to get me new boots, work trousers and keeping my pay the same in 2 years......Dh thinks I should quit...I do feel he may be right.......as never in my working history have a witnessed such anger and nastiness between 2 members of the same family ffs...perhaps I am out of order for venting this out on computer but I really wondered if it is right for me to feel uncomfortable and justified in finding another job asap (btw he also clicked his fingers just before brawl and when I said you can't talk to someone like that he said I haven't got time to f--- about....Long I know...thanks for reading this far any thoughts at all appreciated

OP posts:
Chandra · 11/06/2004 17:16

Yes, get another one if he's turning nasty to you as well, everybody has bad days, but nobody has the right to mistreat an employee as result of it. But don't leave until you get another job you like.

littlemissbossy · 11/06/2004 17:22

Aggression in the workplace is NEVER acceptable behaviour. I agree with Chandra in trying to find alternative employment whilst hanging in there if you can, but don't allow them to involve/bully you in the process HTH

Original poster
baldrick · 11/06/2004 17:25

btw for got to mention that he isn't getting nasty to me but clicking fingers as a way of beckoning someone over and then saying he didn't have the time to be polite, with no apology whatsoever is unaccpetable....also the lance was used as a hitting device, the area aimed for either his ofr father's legs or both and it was very hard (would have me squeal)....no matter how much stress you are under shouldn't you have respect for your ageing father and certainly never hurt him (in front of anyone especially)rant over

OP posts:
Original poster
baldrick · 11/06/2004 17:28

it was so bad that I was thinking about it when I got into bed last night (am normally a trouble free sleeper....but this has bothered me a lot) thanks for your replies Chandra and littlemissbossy....ALWAYS APPRECIATED...thank-you both

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Blu · 11/06/2004 17:32

Baldrick, this sounds horrible for you. Has your boss not apologised? I would make sure that i didn't get involved at all and stay out of it...and if I were you, i think I would look for another job

Original poster
baldrick · 11/06/2004 17:36

Well, whilst he was fighting with his dad and I walked away to the other bit of the greenhouse, he said to his Dad look you're embarassing Stephanie now (did you mean aplogoze for the clicking fingers thing and if you did mean that, no he didn't that is the way he talks to people when under stress...nice man but can wind me up the wrong way)

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juniper68 · 11/06/2004 17:43

Ditto what's already been said. It must be awful for you, I'd feel sad too.

I hope you find somewhere soon. Maybe just threatening to leave your job may make him realise what you're worth?
Have you had an appraisal lately? What about a quiet chat?

Original poster
baldrick · 11/06/2004 17:45

I shouldn't get him to one side and say something like "I know you're under a lot of stress at the minute but I felt extremely uncomfortable on Thursday and will not tolerate this sort of behavoiur, ....if you need to talk to someone about it I am always here?" btw he's been there for me on a number of occassions and offered his time to listen so feel shouldn't just dismiss him, but maybe try this one and see what his response is...? (he's not all bad you know but think the father being there all the time can't be easy)

OP posts:
Blu · 11/06/2004 17:48

No, I meant apologising for the fact that you were made to witness a horrible fight, and that he allowed his out-of-control personal life to discomfort you during your working day! Cos in answer to your question, no, it's absolutely not acceptable, and if he was a manager in a big organisation, rather than his own boss, he would be sacked immedaitely for such an incident on work premises.

juniper68 · 11/06/2004 17:50

Oh I know, you're right. Stress makes all of us behave in ways we wouldn't normally. I'll be thinking of you

Chandra · 11/06/2004 17:51

Baldrick I went away and thought something else, if this is the first time it happens is a good idea to tell him how did you feel, I wouldn't go into the "if you want to talk to someone" bit as he may forget you are working with him rather than being a friend who can stand the ocasional burst. If you think the thing won't repeat stay but if it happens again, it may be worth to consider leaving.

Blu · 11/06/2004 17:51

I think it's a good idea to explain, in the tactful manner you describe, that he embarrassed you - but not to encourage him to talk to you about his problems with his father etc. If he does acknowledge that it was bad for you, that is a good thing.

Wouldn't it be good to get more experience - and a pay rise somewhere else? Look for another job if it feels right, otherwise, stay.

Original poster
baldrick · 11/06/2004 17:51

no Blu he didn't, because whilst they were brawling I said out loudly "this is just not accpetable" walked out, got in my car, started it up, and he came running out when he saw this and said we've still got a van to unload (panicked I think...beacuse we still had work to do and because he'd obviously peed me off)

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juniper68 · 11/06/2004 17:54

You're obviously needed then. I'd ask for a rise if you think the profits are ok though maybe when things have cooled a bit. You really should say you don't want to witness these fights again. I know what it's like working for people you have a close relationship with and it's hard when there are arguments. You feel torn as to what to do.

Blu · 11/06/2004 17:59

WEll said, then Baldrick! I agree with Juniper.

Original poster
baldrick · 11/06/2004 18:02

thanks all, I will say I don't want to witness these fights again, because for what it's worth I like my boss and his father enormously (when they're not being bossy), since his business is his home and his father and my boss frequently bring out a cup of tea, once if not more than once a day, they feel like my extended family (I know them very well as we do spend every day bar saturday and sunday together, mostly)....am enjoying my work (bar the pay) but I do never get the I don't want to go into the office this morning EVER feeling...it's the best job I have ever had as it is the environment I love (outdoors,plants and being with the public) I must f-- nuts not just quitting.

OP posts:
lavender1 · 21/06/2004 18:31

Hallo, am bringing this thread up (so as not to start another one) but basically I wondered something....

My boss has now lost a member of staff, for a while, due to back problems (because he was pushed to hard...working 12 hour days!!!!)...now that he is absent my boss has virtually ordered me that I shall be doing 2 evenings a week and 4 full days (my original agreement when I started was 4 days, with the odd 5th day and occassional Saturdays..

Well tonight, the Wednesday I had agreed to do for evening cannot be done as dh is out on a p@** up stp, I said I can't do this...then he says well I need a list of all the evenings you can do for the next 4 weeks tomorrow (I told him I wasn't going to work 5 days a week and evenings)...then he said oh 2 weeks on Saturday noone else can do, you need to do it...2 minutes later I rang him up saying it's the summer fair,I'm sorry but I can't (dd is doing country dancing and I'm helping)...to which he said "IT'S THE SUMMER FAIR, OR YOUR JOB IS ON THE LINE" and hung up on me....I am more than happy to help out but I wasn't even asked to do this but ordered, have done the last 2 saturdays in 4 weeks and dh is a bit peed....very long message I know but want to hand in notice, or dh suggests writing very forceful but polite letter saying am not going to ordered about or I will leave....any thoughts are GREATLY APPRECIATED (sorry to go on but like job and don't want to make a rash move and do something I regret) many thanksxxx (now Lavender1)

lavender1 · 21/06/2004 18:52

perhaps me suggesting ways I can help the business, with a point form plan might detract from the evening issue??

lavender1 · 21/06/2004 19:35

only one question, is my boss being unreasonable??

lavender1 · 21/06/2004 20:05

anyone?

AussieSim · 21/06/2004 20:16

Oh Lavender, your boss just doesn't have it together. Look for a new job asap, and in the meantime refuse to be bullied - which sounds like his management style all over. He obviously needs to hire one or two more people. I am sure he could pick up a few younguns cheap, but you have to look out for yourself!

lavender1 · 21/06/2004 20:28

Thanks AussieSim (btw have mentioned that to him re: evenings and he said I don't have time to train people or pay someone £100 a day to weed the greenhouse...isn't 25 hours a week with 2 7/8 year olds enough (he has a 6 month old and does NO housework or cooking, when will these types of men learn, looking after children is not a 5 minute job)...other employee is 56 with grown up son (ffs if I had grown up children then I'd do 10 hour days.....why are some men sooo unreasonable,,,mumsnet fathers not included in the unreasonableness as am sure you are)...

MeanBean · 21/06/2004 22:29

He's being bloody unreasonable. How long have you been there, and could you sue him for unfair dismissal if he sacks you, or constructive dismissal if he forces you to resign?

Also, if it's because of childcare commitments, it's indirect sex discrimination, and you don't have to have been there any length of time at all - protection from sex discrimination starts immediately. On Saturday, if you need to be with DD because it is not a normal working day and she needs to be looked after, if he sacks you because of that, then you may well have a case for sex discrimination.

In view of the fact that he's told you your job is on the line, it sounds like he needs to be told a few home truths about the legal protection (if any!) that you have from crap employers like him.

When he realises that you could take him to court, he may well sober up and become more constructive. But at the moment, he doesn't actually sound like the sort of boss who will respond to constructive plans to make life better for everyone.

Personally, I'd go and see a lawyer. The first session is usually free. Or you can phone the Equal Opportunities Commission and get some advice from them - they're based in Manchester, and they have a website.
And you like this job???!!!!

coppertop · 21/06/2004 22:34

Yes he's being an unreasonable @rse. Do you have a written employment contract? If so, what does it say about overtime? The standard clause usually says the employee will be expected to work reasonable overtime - and this isn't reasonable IMO.

ChicPea · 21/06/2004 22:39

Ring AKAS and they will tell you free of charge where you stand. He IS unreasonable and you can stand up to him. Tell him you can work the hours/days originally agreed and that's it. You don't have to say why.
If he fires you, and you want to keep your job, ask for it in writing. He may then have a re-think and withdraw his demands. Good luck!