Is marriage good for women?

[christie1]

In the last few months I have read articles with this theme that married women don't live as long (although they have more sex) and the growing number of single women in the UK who choose not to be married. I even read recently that women with large families live at least 5 years less than those with small ones. Men who are married live longer than single men but the studies appear to suggest the same is not true for women. Now, I am always skeptical of the latest study but wonder what is driving these. Is there truth in them. I have been married almost 15 years myself and been a normal average marriage, no crisis stuff or trauma. Wouldn't trade the kids for the world but sometimes wonder where the old me went? Why all the strategies to cope with a spouse, will they wear me down in the end or is it just normal part of marriage on both sides? Just some new year midlife musings? What do you think? I don't know the answer myself. I think yes because it is good for the kids but......

Ive said this on another thread today that its the overall 'buck stops with you' kind of responsibility that does it.

cold, I agreed and women let them. It was the letting them bit which is interesting. I personally often don't feed the children until later because it's not important to me. If they're hungry they'll find something to eat or go and find one of me or the older 3 children to feed them. So I suppose with all these things like he doesn't wash up when I want him to wash up or he';ll do it but it will take 12 hours and I can't bear to see the house in that state for that time you have to decide is your standard so important you think the extra work you do to meet it is worth while. Many women think that is so and thus are over burdened at home. Sometimes it's the other way around too and men like things done a certain way at home and won't leave it to their wife as the wife can't get it right.

It's interesting for me having lived just with the children for nearly 4 years to see these things. Is it easier being married with children or divorced and just the children but not the man around? When my mother was dying (not having been very happily married herself albeit since 1953) she said - don't be in a hurry to marry again.

i think if you live in house you contribute to its general running..its not rocket science and gets it all done quicker for having fun etc..

is marriage good for women? i've put on weight, done (nearly) all the cooking and had many huge arguments BUT i think i am better off than when i was dating men who made me feel bad about myself. at least i now feel secure and (mostly) loved. i'm often nostalgic about the past, until i remember the reality of the relationships i had, which definitely did me more harm than good. that's just me though!

ditto the nodding colditz. I am inclined to agree on the draining thing. And I agree on the taking responsibility too. What I didn't count on was the battles over the issues that were even more draining. So, like I said, just made the best of things and try not to sweat the small stuff. I don't want to be single again, god no! Jst wonder why marriage is negative on womens health.

mm, but there's dating and single, married and then also just single. My sister hasn't had or wanted a man for 10 years. Is that a better option for your long term health?

Do women put themselves second to their children and husband and men don't in marriage - is that the reason - like traditionally in families with not enough food father's plate piled high, children given what else there is and mother nearly starves to death which is a very very traditional model all round the world and perhaps played out in relationships in the UK today in the sense of not food but putting own needs to relax, have hobbies, tax exercise, eat well, personal psychological health first.

Benson, DS has severe allergies and has a very restricted diet. This is why he has a different meal. On days when I don't work the three of us sit down at the same time to different meals. DP does not like to eat early and he is very fussy (like ds). When I work I have no time to cook a meal for three of us and DD only needs a snack so the quickest meal in the land is prepared for DS.

It's not ideal I know.

Tonight DS ate at 7pm having not had lunch since 12pm. I got distracted when I got in an Xenia's word were ringing in my ears and still he did not move from his desk.

I meant dating and single, god no, just single (with the kids older and on their own more) fine by me. Sound peaceful really. But then I have single friends (who are still dating) and they are not glowingly happy so maybe it's just a case of grass is greener. So why are the studies saying, generally, my time is up before them?

True about the food thing, I remember looking in shock as dh sat with a full plate eating his hot meal while me and kids were unfed. I said, what about the rest of us? He did get embarassed. The point was, it would never have occured to me to feed myself first before the kids, wouldn't enter my mind. If I think about all the cold, uneaten, half finished, rushed meals I have had. He does ask now, if it is ok if he goes ahead or can he help before he goes to eat so there was a point where I did make progress. But, even today if he is cooking up something, I will have to mention to be sure to throw in something for the kids who haven't eaten yet and would like what he is having.

agree dont think its marriage per se that causes these problems..
xenia i agree too with what you are saying..this work life balance crap is only for media folks to talk about its all assumed womans work and that is wrong...
but we have our sons and daughters to teach what to expect etc..it doesn't have to be like this..

xenia..your example is quite true, family division of food etc i recognise that;
is it do you think down to
that male supposedly provides,
children / offspring inherit genes seen possible income in future,
mother sadly forgotten / sacrifices herself..

sad show, i think...but do you think based on ecomonics of how families are perceived / act within roles or unconciously (sp?)..?

scc, doesn't happen like that when the wife earns a huge fortune though does it - so the answer is women to earn more than men. Simple.... I can't conceive of being in the ch1 situation ever. My ex husband was as responsible for cooking and feeding the chidlren as I was. In school holidays I was working and he was around. I never took the children to the dentist once in 19 year of marriage. He'd wash up before we'd finished eating (that bit was annoying actually) and got cross if the dishwasher wasn't stacked properly. But I suppose I chose a man like that,. The feminism, equality etc was very important to me when I was 20/21 and out husband seeking and we discussed things like who would do what in the home before we got engaged. (mind you you lot have happy marriages and I'm divorced so we can hardly use me as the model of new woman hood)

I earn more than DP, do more than DP, have higher standards and am much better informed than DP.

Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head Xenia this is why I don't want to get married - there's no point. FFS, I might even have to give him maintenance if we split up! And he doesn't do anything!

I used to want to be married, have 2.4 children, have a husband who supported me . I wondered if I met the most perfect man if I'd want to get married, and I think still, probably not. I'm not sure whether it's just because I'm completely disillusioned because both my best friends husbands have turned out to be wife-beating tossers and that I'd be regretting it now if I had married DP or whether I've just grown up and don't want the fairytale and big day.

xenia - what is ch1 position?
i think women & men should earn equal pay for work; oh, but we do have a law about that!
am feminist in many ways at least aware of stuff, but think women and men equally capable to be tossers i suppose
i agree w/ division of labour and its well practised here, beleive me i cant lie to a warrior princess!
sounds like he (mr ex xenia) lost out to me you know

Excellent thread! Feminism isn't dead!
I so agree with Expat and Xenia, and would you believe, I'm a SAHM, and recognise the bit of being rewired when having children. But a lot is to do with not letting it happen. DH used to automatically take the biggest piece of meat, but not anymore!
We take turns with sleeping in. He did cook yesterday when I got home at 6pm (from a playdate with the children).

ar, they may be changing the law on cohabiting so watch out for that if he lives with you if it happens, in terms of maintenance if you split.
ch1 position? In what way?

I think all men and women in marriages need to try to prioritise their own diet, fitness, health, hobbies and balance that with obligations to children and their other half. If you neglect your health etc in a sense you're damaging your children long term so being selfish in going for a run or whatever may be beneficial to the child but I am certainly no better at this than anyone else and lots of men have the same problem if they work long hours and help at home too.

Do stay at home mothers think it's fair that as the man works in the week and earns the money they should do the childcare 7 days a week and all the housework? That was the traidtional swap which always sounded ludicrous to me because it means one person works 5 days a week and the other 7 days. How would anyone tolerate that?

hhh, good. That's fair. I've always thought mother doing part time work and most of the children/home things was the worst deal of all. Much better to be a full time stay at home mother or full time worker like me.

ch1 position - sorry now understand - I meant her position of her husband not doing what others in more equitable relationships might expect.

On food I suppose one issue is men need more calories and a lot of women get fat on marriage because they think they should eat the same as men.... so there are a few grounds for men eating more.

xenia am sahm and i certainly dont tolerate that regime, everyone pitches in, i need day off too and if mums happy everyone is happy..
have read some stuff before about sahm, is it pet hate / topic around here?
ultimately its life style choice, resulting in not much 'style' left in my life but knowing a great little boy really well and loving it..and one benefit, for me, increased libido..cant be all bad!

I don't mind men/him eating more, it's just the automatic "the biggest/nicest bits are for me" that needs addressing, isn't it!
And he is guilty of serving himself first and the kids still have empty plates, too, like mentioned before. And he gets told off for it!

he does more DIY, i do more cleaning chores, but we more or less have the same amount of spare time (not very much at all), so I'm happy enough, even though it is a traditional kind of split. When i return to work in a few years time, I'll expect him to pick up more of the cleaning jobs and am ready to fight

Christie1 I know what you mean about the constant battles to get DH to do his bit.

Its not that he is unwilling, unhelpful or lazy if he was I wouldn't have married him.

Its all very well saying yes we should make them do 50% and castigating women for causing the problem, because lord knows its got to be our own fault, but if you are a good mum are you prepared to watch your children go hungry or get nappy rash because your other half hasn't noticed they need fed and changed ?

The options are to continually dump said child in lap resulting in constant discussions over who should do what or do it yourself and become mummie martyr. I'm going for option a but its hard work.

Yes some men get it but I think most don't. I married a kind sensitive caring person but am still in this situation.Yes I know sometimes its down to my own Monica like controlling tendencies and I am trying to change those but to blame women 100% for the problem isn't fair, this stuff has been going on for generations we need support and practical solutions to change it.

I gave some practical solutions. One is not to do the jobs concerned. I agree if he would let his child get bleeding nappy rash then that's appalling. My ex husband was as good as I was at changing nappies. For the first 4 years he was the person in charge of ringing out and washing the cloth nappies every night. At one point we had 3 children in nappies at night still. There's photo of the 3 yr old , 1 yr and baby in a line in their cloth nappy from about 1998. It's just achieving fair division of labout that matters. If you know you're responsible for something you do it.

After 19 years of all this fairness and new man I'm on my own with 5 and working full time so it hasn't exactly worked out by my methods has it? Stick with your own. Although in most of that time I thought we had a fair sharing of labour which is important.

Other important things I picked someone who had lived alone and run his own house. He showed me his system of shirt washing and where he hung them so they didn't need ironing. Look at the m an. Does he live in a really messy house? Does his mother or sister wait on his hand and foot? What are his views on women's rights? Does he think women belong in the kitchen? Is he fit and always on his feet or 15 stone and slumped in front of the TV? This is only helpful for your daughters or if you ever pick another man.

Well I won't argue the point any more as something miraculous has happened in our household today.

I suggested to DH that I take prime responsibility for DS today and he would tomorrow and he surprised me by saying he would do it both days as he has been working late a few days so I have been doing extra baths & dinners.

He has been absolutely wonderful at feeding, changing and entertaining DS and I have stayed out of the kitchen when DS was being fed to avoid making "helpful" suggestions. I changed one nappy because I smelt poo, however DS didn't know I had changed it and 5 mins later was about to change so he wouldn't have been waiting long. Jolly glad we have disposables by the way, washing out cloth nappies is one job I am very glad that neither DH nor myself has to do.

I feel strangely redundant but have used the time to get meals ready and go for a bike ride and play a bit with DS.

I'm so happy because I do love my DH and the thing that upset me most about doing more chores and childcare than him was that he wasn't thinking of my needs. Fingers crossed that it lasts.

Maybe all you had to do was say to him. You shouldn't have to but if thats what works.

I am not offended by being the ch1 situation. I put myself out there for comment because I wanted to get the comments although I appreciate the support rookiemum. I see how I did fall into the maytr mommy trap but at the same time I think that mypartner was quite content to let me try to do it all, even if I obviously was bone tired and needing help. I never thought it would be like this and I have to say, I was surprised by it all. older and wiser for sure. But, I am making my 40's more about things to develop me, like studying this year, and dh doing the childcare (whole other thread on that). But anyway, don't want to paint him as a total pig, but it has been tough since we had kids. Don't remember it being an issue before, we were both working, doing our parts. One thing I have ntoiced and I think he did too this year that his lack of being a part of the household and kid routine has damaged his relationship with the kids in that they rely on me more and that hurts him. I have noticed he tries harder this year while he is off work and taking care of them while I study to be more to sit and play and be part of their world. anyway, these are my ramblings. I don't have the answer, I think the generation comming right behind me are doing better at getting it more equal.

Just forgot to add that because my dad always pitched in 100% and my mom worked most of the time, I expected it would not be a problem. and my dh's mom is not shrinking violet for sure. Perhaps she did too much for him. That is what my dad thinks who gets annoyed with dh when he doesn't help out more.

christie1 - hope it goes more to plan soon..

dont know about generation behind us but i think for the generation we are bringing up it will change if we change it.
i couldn't bring up a dog let alone any child in such a sexist division of household chores that i was subjected to - boys dont need to do anything for pocket money and that ilk..horror story waiting to happen imo..