Is marriage good for women?

[christie1]

In the last few months I have read articles with this theme that married women don't live as long (although they have more sex) and the growing number of single women in the UK who choose not to be married. I even read recently that women with large families live at least 5 years less than those with small ones. Men who are married live longer than single men but the studies appear to suggest the same is not true for women. Now, I am always skeptical of the latest study but wonder what is driving these. Is there truth in them. I have been married almost 15 years myself and been a normal average marriage, no crisis stuff or trauma. Wouldn't trade the kids for the world but sometimes wonder where the old me went? Why all the strategies to cope with a spouse, will they wear me down in the end or is it just normal part of marriage on both sides? Just some new year midlife musings? What do you think? I don't know the answer myself. I think yes because it is good for the kids but......

'But...the chap you leave because he's not that great at understanding young children's needs might just be the person later on who is an absolute whizz with dealing with teenagers when you can't possibly cope with them.'

Or he could turn out to be just as lazy and selfish as any teen, after all, that's what he's like now, and leopards don't change their spots.

Or you could also meet some other bloke in the interim who thinks letting a little kid go hungry b/c he's too lazy to feed them is pretty lame and something he'd never do.

What's DH like if he doesn't eat for hours, or has to wait ages to have something to eat? Does he get cranky and moany? Tell him he can eat once he's done the children's dinner.

Or he can grow up.

I agree that men do very well out of marriage, and I would guess that men's expectations out of life are different to women's. Maybe men are better at being selfish, their brains being wired differently.

I remember I used to be that selfish, and I am convinced that my brain rewired itself during pregnancy and the early days of looking after my daughters. Now I am much more self-sacrificing for all the other members of the household. I also get some satisfaction out of nurturing and providing a home for the children and even for dh, which would have been unthinkable before.

I don't think men could understand this if they tried, and I am not sure that every woman has it in her to re-shape her partner into the mould of a new man. Why should we blame ourselves for this? I am convinced it is a natural trend - not an unstoppable one, but a fairly powerful one.

Me Man.

You Wooman.

Where's my club?

I think men are just as capable as women at looking after children. I think if they are put in the postion where they have to care for their child (a role which most women start to adjust to in pregnancy and are then thrust into at the birth) then they would do the self-sacrifice, nurturing thing just as well. I also think that they are quite capable of letting someone else do it, so that they don't have to.

I am very happy being married. I think the secret to this is that my husband and I are partners all the way 100%. I would be terribly unhappy if he didn't pull his weight. I know a lot of women whos husband never helps around the house or never plays with the children and I can see where those women could say that their life is a little less, however I don't think this is the case for all married women.

Yes, interesting point. DP will sometimes pick up the mantle of childcare, but not do it according to my standards. I don't consider a fry-up to be a decent meal, or something that's all meat and no veg (DP's preferred food). Should I really just be grateful that he's cooked something? Particularly bearing in mind that I also work full-time, handle everything to do with the house, bills, childcare, food, washing etc etc etc [before I'm rounded on by Xenia for being a doormat, he's supposed to handle the house/our affairs in the UK, although I wish I did this too, cos he's done a shite job].

Over Christmas we were staying with some friends. They have a large outdoor pool which is unfenced, which meant that DD had to be watched at all times (we're in Aus, so summer and all doors open).

DP had a very relaxed attitude about watching DD outside, but children can drown in seconds in pools, so when I wanted a shower I handed him a 'tutu' kit, explained that all it needed was him to tie the strips of bright pink gauze around the elastic and put it on DD. 5 minutes work to great effect. He kept her occupied, I showered and all was good. For his 5 minutes effort (that I had given him the tools and instructions for, having thought to pack the tutu kit) he was applauded as an amazing father by everybody in a 30 mile radius. FFS. Are our expectations really so low?

I have a bit of a zero tolerance policy - Im not going to pick up the jobs DP hasn't done, and for the most part we have a fairly equal relationship, there are some things that he just doesn't see.

Did anyone see all those articles that were around in the autumn on using dog training techniques on your spouse? I nearly wet myself when I realised that that's exactly what I do - really quite like positive parenting - ignore behaviour you don't like, praise behaviour you do like. I ignore DP when he is whirlwinding around the flat wailing 'where are my keys, help me look for my keys' or whatever it is that he's got into a flap about and always praise housework (who knows what I would do if he spontaneously cleaned the loo.

n.b we aren't married - though are thinking about it for legal reasons. Will it all come crashing down if we do go and get 'done'?

DS is one of those skinny kids who would never eat if he could get away with it (DP is the same). Weeks/months have gone by and the situation does not change. When I get in (exhausted as I have been away since 06.30) I try to do the quickest meal imaginable.

What I try to get accross to DP is that I have a job and if I didn't HAVE to leave at a certain time to get to the Nursery I would still be at my desk (on MN )but I have a hard deadline of the Nursery closing and I have no choice. DP feels he has a choice.

ANother problem is that there never seems to be time in the day to discuss/argue/nag about these issues.

Anyone read WIFEWORK ? Its the most depressing book ever lots of statistics showing how the minute you get married the amount of housework the husband does goes down by X hours and the wifes goes up by Y.

Also lots on childrearing, I was particularly struck by the point that we say men are good Dads if they play with their kids but its the mothers who do all the facilitating, i.e. pack the bag, change the nappies, make the sarnies so that Dad can push the swing at the park.

Oh and in case you think you can escape this by going back to work apparently in the US where both parents are working full time, research has shown that husbands only do about 8% more than those with non working wives.

Thoroughly depressed me and like bensonbluebird I am now going for zero tolerence. Funnily enough its Dhs sister and other female relatives giving me a hard time for it, probably because if they can keep the self delusion going that if their DH stirs the soup once in a blue moon then they are doing their fair share, but by me actually challenging it and demanding equality it makes them feel very uneasy.

who knows? is it good for anyone? a stable relationship is best for kids imo..
well, it will be kinder to the widow than it will be to the 'partner / common law/ girl / boy friend' as i have recently come to realise!

Sorry for another point, but forgot to put this in.

I explained to DH at christmas that at the minute I wouldn't consider having another child until he did more of his fair share. I said this because its true, parenthood seems to have resulted in me being an unpaid slave and DH plays wiht DS for five minutes and thinks he is a shit hot Dad.

I think it was the wake up call he needed as he is desperate for more kids - uh probably because he doesn't have to do all the grunt work for DS. Since then he has been a lot better although also seems to think that doing equal amount of chores for a few days should result in some sort of reward - err no DH its ongoing and constant and no one gives me a reward for doing it.

Anyway rant over.

happydaddy...is that one of your old chat up lines?
paulaplumpbotto..you give me hope as soon to be bride..good post and i agree!

Well Suzycreamcheese I hope that yours to is a happy one. Not all men are lazy pigs. My husband changed diapers and does housework. In fact as I am in my first trimester and am feeling poorly he has been carrying everything. Just remember to be a partner, not a slave.

agree! we felt like partners before baby came and now its just who ever does what, its fun being there hanging out together etc..he does alot and i know, but i do too...

rookiemum, I know what you mean about his family and the uneasiness of zero tolerance. DHs parents are still amused by the fact that DH does the ironing, hoovers etc especially with me being a sahm.

I cant wait to see their reaction when I go back to work shortly.

surely it entirely depends on who you're married to?

ds, I would physically pick the child up and dump it in your husband's room with if necessary a note on a piece of paper - feed me now. Lock yourself in the bathroom and have a long bath. I would do that every day until he realises children need to be fed. He knows you'll feed the child so he leaves it to you. Therefore you cause the problem. Not really picking on you but that's how it comes about women don't often run most public boards or even the country because they let this sort of thing happen at home.

Xenia the problem is that he has a completly differnt view to what is acceptable. On occassion when I have been occupied with other stuff DS has not eaten until past 7pm. We have real weight issues with DS and whilst I believe he would feed him it would be way way to late, probably 3 hours later than it should be.

Another example is I decided long ago not to cook for DP anymore probably because I felt like I was being taken advantage of. DP now cooks for himself and regularily eats at about 11pm. Do you see where I am going with this. He thinks it is reasonable to eat at 11pm. Likewise he thinks it's reasonable for DS to eat at say 7.30pm. That's the fundamental problem we have different views on what we think is reasonable. If I were to lock myself in the bathroom and have a long bath DP would be fine about it and would not object in any way but I guarantee you DS would not have eaten when I got out.

Good discussion. I think it is just one of those days where you think, what is going on. I set the alarm for 5 to get up and write (I ahve been dabbling in creative writing). The youngest heard me up and got up so there goes that idea. dh sleeps in, rolls out of bed late, no good morning, then grumbles because he out of cigs and wants to shower then go to the store to get some. I suggest as we were taking the kids to the library we all get ready and he can pick up the cigs on the way. He sighs, and agrees then sulks for 15 minutes, compalining the kids are running in and peeing while he showers (remember I have been up wtih them for 4 hours now). Anyway, I would not want marriage and kids, no regrets, just sometimes I resent the apparent privilege I have let dh take. Why did I do it? I just got tired of the arguing. Over the 3 weeks holidays he slept in everyday except 3 days which he "let me sleep in. I did bring it up several times that I didn't think it was fair. But to be honest, I am getting to old and tired to argue these points anymore. I just take the good and ignore the bad. Pathetic I know. Sometimes I wonder what will happen when the kids are gone.....will I be gone to?

whoops, meant I would not want to have missed marriage and kids, just perhaps missed the cranky sulky bits.

Wifework uurk....! no wonder I keep swithering about marriage.

Droso is there any way that you could change who is responsible for what? You say that your Dh doesn't think it is important for your son to eat, and that you are worried about his weight. What does your DH think is important in bringing up your kids that he could be soleley ( sp?) responsible for? Is there a way that your DH could be responsible for doing the nursery pick up and you for cooking dinner? I know you don't need anything else to worry about, but it concerns me that you all seem to be eating at different times instead of as a family, could this be having some impact on your DS not eating?

bensonbluebird for what its worth I don't recall having any problems until DS arrived.

Until then as I recall we were completely equal although the fact that we were both f/t and were able to afford an excellent cleaner 2 days a week and M&S finest no cook meals probably hid any problem.

I love being married and am much happier than when I was single, I think it is having children and being off work that throws up the divisions. Unless you are prepared to go for Xenias drastic solution of only taking two weeks off then it seems to produce all sorts of gender stereotyping. I foolishly started ironing DHs shirts whilst on maternity leave before DS arrived and almost a year on its now a battlefield as now I'm going back to work they are building up in a pile until DH either a)irons them or calls in b)an ironing service or I crack and do b) as I have definitely learnt my lesson and may have to compromise and do the outsourcing myself.

I still think I made the point, by saying that married men tend to leach their wives of energy, usually unintentionally.

I did find myself nodding at that point colditz