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Original poster

Dull I know but anybody have any experience of renegotiating an offer on a house following survey and legal searches?

84 replies

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:15

I know it's New Year's Day and you're all enjoying a wonderful bank holiday off work and of course you're not remotely interested in my mundane questions about the house buying process. However, I thought I'd ask in case any of you kind people took pity on a poor pregnant lady...

Briefly, we put in an offer on a house back in October, had it accepted subject to survey etc. The offer was ?1000 below the asking price. We have found from the survey and legal searches that none of the work the vendor did to the property has planning permission, nor does it meet current building regulations. The galley kitchen has been extended to the width of the house but is only single skin and needs retrospective planning permission, work to bring it up to spec and various checks done on it. The attic has also been (badly) converted and the house was sold with the attic advertised as an extra room. Our solicitor has informed us that this conversion is substandard and the attic must not be used as a habitable room and should have the stairs removed to it to make it storage only or work done to rectify the vendor's work. The survey says 'we strongly recommend you renegotiate price'.

So, obviously tomorrow morning we are going to phone the estate agents and try to renegotiate the price. What I want to know is this: Has anybody else ever done it? What are the chances of the vendor renegotiating?

I know it all very much depends on how much the buyer wants to sell and whether he thinks that anybody else would proceed at asking price. However, I'm pregnant, hormonal and worried that the whole thing is going to collapse. If you were the vendor would you renegotiate? And do we change our offer or wait for the vendor to suggest a more reasonable price? I'm actually finding this more upsetting than I ever anticipated.

Never try to buy your first house and have your first baby at the same time.

Thanks for any help or advice offered.

OP posts:

peachygirl · 01/01/2007 17:20

SOH we are also in this position (house and baby !) as we are having a damp survey done on the 3rd on the house we want to buy and may negotiate on the price.
Yours does sound a bigger job.
I was under the impression that if the survey says the work is essential then you are in a good position to negotiate, either for money off or for the Vendor to do the work themselves

Kbear · 01/01/2007 17:20

We had probs come up on re the wiring on our survey. Was told it would cost £5000 to put right. Asked for £5000 off the asking price. Vendor said no way. We say ok and pulled out. He called a week later and said ok. We told him to shove it up his arse (not in so many words!) and bought the house next door!

Depends on how brave you are!

LizP · 01/01/2007 17:22

We tried to do this when buying, because the survey came back with so much work needing doing that it was way over priced. We couldn't agree so walked away - the vendor then managed to find someone who was a cash buyer and brought without a survey for the asking price. The house is still standing but think I'm glad we didn't buy and immediately have to live in a building site.

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:23

well it costs about £25 to £40,000 to put in an attic conversion (with bathroom) around here ...

the kitchen extension would also probably cost the best part of 5 - 10K

you need to establish with estate agents the CURRENT value of a house in that location with the smaller kitchen and no attic conversion .. I'd even look round other estate agents / websites to see how much similar are on the market for

do you REALLY want this house?

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:24

there is a BIG difference between niggles turning up on survey that cost a couple of grand to fix .. and major structural / legal problems

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:28

Brave? Not very.

Pregnant and prone to extreme anger or extreme tears? Very.

KBear you sound very forthright, something I sadly am not. Peachy I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking being pregnant and buying houses are suitable concurrent ventures.

The survey discusses the problems mentioned as requiring 'urgent attention' and has stated that they are required to make the building 'habitable'. In my mind this means that we have a strong case. Plus, if it was sold as having an attic room and in fact it is just storage space, then we have a good case for renegotiation no?

OP posts:

gigglinggoblin · 01/01/2007 17:28

if you want something low stress this doesnt sound like it... what are the chances planning permission could be refused? would your mortgage company still be happy to lend you the money given all the problems? i would be tempted to tell the vendor to get in touch when all problems are sorted. from experience i can say it is absolutely no fun living in a building site with a small child! if you really want the house make sure you knock off a large lump for inconvenience of having to have the work done yourself, dont just offer the price a house would fetch if it didnt have the loft, sounds like a fair bit of work you will have to live through

Carmenere · 01/01/2007 17:30

Agree with Twiglet there is a big difference to a few things you can get fixed and major planning problems. You will have trouble selling the property if you do not get everything done. You must get this house for a lot less than the original price because of the risk and hastle that it will cause and cost to make it right.
Tbh I would think long and hard about whether the property is worth the trouble.

peachygirl · 01/01/2007 17:30

SOH it is nice to find someone in the smae position!! even if it is a PITA
I think twiglett is right you are looking at some major work while we are not really, How successful you are may also depend on how good your solicitors / estate agents are in terms of dealing with the negotiations.

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:31

We really want this house and are happy to do a lot of work on it. It's Victorian and we accept that it will have issues and niggles. However, I think that the work not meeting building regulations and it having no planning permission is a bit bigger than a niggle.

We wouldn't even expect him to knock of the price of re-doing the extension and attic, we want some recognition of the fact that we will have to mess about correcting his mistakes and applying for the correct permissions. Everything else is ready to go, mortgage offer etc etc and we are keen, I'm just worried that the vendor won't budge. Not that the infinite wisdom of MN can help with that, but I'm just panicking.

OP posts:

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:33

oh and you're not talking a couple of grand renogiation .. I would've though you were looking at a drop in price of 20 - 30K at least

isn't a bedroom worth 10K ?

Carmenere · 01/01/2007 17:34

SOH seriously, this could cost you a lot of money and it should have been sorted by the vendor before it was put on the market. If he is unwilling to negotiate, pull out.

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:35

my house is victorian semi in London

where are you buying?

gigglinggoblin · 01/01/2007 17:36

have you looked round recently to see if there is anything similar? remember the market will flood in the next couple of weeks, you might find the house next door up for sale without all the problems. i really wouldnt rush. ours is victorian aswell, we had a few niggles but nothing of this scale!

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:38

Mortgage company are happy to lend to us so there are no problems there- they have seen the survey etc.

Most other houses in the area have extended kitchens and attic conversions and they are at the back of the houses away from the public highway. We have asked at the local council and planning permission would be 'highly likely'. The selling price is a good reflection of the price of a house in this area with attic conversion and extended kitchen, so this house is not worth as much until this work is done.

I don't want to back out as I love the house and it is completely habitable apart from the kitchen issue (wouldn't be using the attic until we had our 2nd so would be more for storage for the time being anyway).

Gah! It was all going so well.

Peachy, fancy setting up a support group?!

OP posts:

Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:41

Has the survey suggetsed that this work must be done? Is it in teh Urgent bit at teh back? Our survey had nothing in teh Urgent bit but in teh bit underneath then said x things needed to be addressed "urgently"!? Are they only willing to lend you x amount now based on teh survey?

Definitley renogotiiate. Nothing to lose. By how much depends on how much you want the house and are prepared to maybe absorb some of the cost to put it right.

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:41

find a couple of reputable builders and send them round to the house ASAP .. get quotes for putting everything to the standard you need (ie with attic room / with extended kitchen as you made your offer) then use that as your bargaining start-point

really a house is only really worth what you'll pay for it .. so if you'd pay what you offered for what it actually is then that's the other side of your bargaining spectrum

hth

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:41

We're in Norfolk btw.

I know that it's probably time to start looking at other options just in case, but I'm a bloody idiot and thought we might have a straightforward sale. And I wanted to sort this all asap before the small creature inside of me makes an appearance.

Why is it so complicated? And why would you do all that work to a house without planning permission.

OP posts:

Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:43

If the attic isn't important to you yet as a room, I'd accept that (still renoegotiate but...) Shouldn't have been advertised like that though, just as a loft room or something

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:43

tell the estate agent / vendor that there's a problem ASAP .. and keep quiet .. see what they come back to you with?

sometimes you can put these things in the hands of the vendor ..

just say you're really sorry but the survey has shown xxxx .. and you need to know what the vendor is willing to do about this

Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:44

Lots of people do! It's very common.

Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:46

Ask teh vendor (via your solicitor) for their planning permission etc re these issues. They won't be able to provide it so then you can tell them you're getting quotes and they'll be prepared for a renegotiation. It's a pita buying house (can you tell we've just been through this - moving on Thursday)

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:46

Tinker, it's in the 'urgent matters' bit at the back. So listed as 'needing attention straight after purchase or in some cases before'. It doesn't necessarily imply that the vendor has to accept responsibility, but the legal searches do show that it is the vendor who has not followed correct procedures, so surely it is his responsibility?

Thanks for all of the advice and help- thought everybody would be too hungover/full of leftover Christmas chocolate/uninterested to worry about a pregnant woman's ramblings. I am very appreciative!

OP posts:

Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:46

How long has it been on the market? Any other offers before yours?

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