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Original poster

Dull I know but anybody have any experience of renegotiating an offer on a house following survey and legal searches?

84 replies

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:15

I know it's New Year's Day and you're all enjoying a wonderful bank holiday off work and of course you're not remotely interested in my mundane questions about the house buying process. However, I thought I'd ask in case any of you kind people took pity on a poor pregnant lady...

Briefly, we put in an offer on a house back in October, had it accepted subject to survey etc. The offer was ?1000 below the asking price. We have found from the survey and legal searches that none of the work the vendor did to the property has planning permission, nor does it meet current building regulations. The galley kitchen has been extended to the width of the house but is only single skin and needs retrospective planning permission, work to bring it up to spec and various checks done on it. The attic has also been (badly) converted and the house was sold with the attic advertised as an extra room. Our solicitor has informed us that this conversion is substandard and the attic must not be used as a habitable room and should have the stairs removed to it to make it storage only or work done to rectify the vendor's work. The survey says 'we strongly recommend you renegotiate price'.

So, obviously tomorrow morning we are going to phone the estate agents and try to renegotiate the price. What I want to know is this: Has anybody else ever done it? What are the chances of the vendor renegotiating?

I know it all very much depends on how much the buyer wants to sell and whether he thinks that anybody else would proceed at asking price. However, I'm pregnant, hormonal and worried that the whole thing is going to collapse. If you were the vendor would you renegotiate? And do we change our offer or wait for the vendor to suggest a more reasonable price? I'm actually finding this more upsetting than I ever anticipated.

Never try to buy your first house and have your first baby at the same time.

Thanks for any help or advice offered.

OP posts:

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:50

Oh Tinker you're lucky to be at the end of it all. And I despise moving house, but it will be a breeze compared to all this hassle- if we ever move house that is.

I think I'll get DH to phone first thing tomorrow, explain all of the problems and ask them to get back to us. I hope the vendor is a rational man (although I know for a fact that he named one of his children Levi, can he be trusted?).

Got my 20wk scan on Wednesday- I thought that was my biggest worry this week.

Thank you all, it's helped just to hear that others have been there and your advice is much appreciated.

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WideWebWitch · 01/01/2007 17:51

I'd be prepared to lose it without a substantial reduction. Planning permission and all that isn't a 2 minute or cheap job. They knew damn well this would show on the survey. I agree, you should find out price without the attic room etc (estate agents shouldn't have advertised it as a room either of there was no planning) and offer that. Be prepared to walk if they don't budge. Honestly, you won't mind doing all the work etc if you got a reduction but otherwise it'll piss you off. Well, maybe it won't but it would me. I walked away from a similar house in London some years ago on finding out similar stuff.

peachygirl · 01/01/2007 17:52

SOH I hope it will be OK, get onto your estate agents early in the morning and then you have lots of time to try to gt things sorted.
We could set up another antenatal thread! I'm due in 7 weeks (gulp) and we may or may not be in the new house. DH has dealt with lots of the stuff and we are waiting now for this damp thing. We have sold to a property developer and 2 days after having all the offers accepted he was ringing to find out when we expected to be out of the house - cheeky!!

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:53

It was on the market 6 months ago but the chain collapsed (nothing to do with the house) and the vendor withdrew it from the market. We viewed it the day it had gone on the market (second viewers) and made an offer that day. It was rejected so we upped it very slightly and he accepted. The vendor has moved out already and is very keen to get this sorted- him and his wife divorced and this was their family home. He is living 400 miles away and in the estate agent's words 'wants a quick sale'. This may be a positive.

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Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:54

If in ugrent bit just tell them. In fact, I think your solicitor should do it (if they;'re any good !!!!) It'll only be picked up by another buyer's survey if not yours. He's not going to wait until a non-survey buyer turns up surely. Good luck. It's horrible, the whole out-of-controlness of the process.

noddyholder · 01/01/2007 17:54

Not all rooms in teh roof need planning some need just building regs,and if you take a builder round and they inspect the work and it is ok the sellers can get an indemnity policy for the work.If you erally love the house there are ways hth

Twiglett · 01/01/2007 17:54

then he's just as keen to get rid as you are to buy

good luck .. I think you have a good plan in mind

WideWebWitch · 01/01/2007 17:54

In which case offer SUBSTANTIALLY less but be prepared to up it so he feels he's gettnig you to move upwards. So reduce offer by £20k (or whatever) but knowing you've got £5k to negotiate with if necessary.

Tinker · 01/01/2007 17:56

That's very positive. How much under asking price did he accept - he'll argue that he's already dropped x amount (I would if I were him)

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:56

Blimey Peachy! Property developers are a different breed entirely. I thought I was finding this stressful at 21wks pg. When you move in get yourself a clipboard, move the sofa in first and lie there directing the people around you. And make sure that the kettle is easy to unpack too. You are officially my heroine...

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Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 17:58

We only offered just under the asking price so he's not missing out really.

The planning permission issue in the loft is that he has installed a velux window. The other problem is the work not meeting building regs and the attic not being habitable.

Oh I'm going to live in a yurt.

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peachygirl · 01/01/2007 18:01

if it helps one of my friends recently got 20K off a house in nottingham and not because of 'big reasons' she also pulled out and they then approached her after a week or so.

Tinker · 01/01/2007 18:02

Don't think a Velux window requires planning permission tbh. Could be wrong. Surveys can often be a bit wrong as well, btw.

noddyholder · 01/01/2007 18:03

Is the house in a conservation area or listed?A velux is ok without planning it is usually dormers which are trouble from a planning pov.Is the velux at the front or the back?If you haven't contacted the council don't yet as if you decide to get indemnity insurance it will be invalid if you have.Is it the quality of the work that is in question?

Kbear · 01/01/2007 18:05

Actually i was a nervous wreck - we lost a lot of money on that house with surveys and gas inspections etc but we weighed it up and decided it would cost lots more to do it up and the Vendor was a pig who had bullied us from day one because he knew we were in a rush so we (and the estate agent) had great pleasure in telling him we were pulling out. The estate agent said "it will be my pleasure to tell him" as he had been a PITA to them too.

Buying a house is never easy is it but I will say that once we pulled out a weight was lifted and this house purchase went through swimmingly in 6 weeks from start to finish.

I wish you luck.

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 18:09

The velux does need permission because of where the house is- something to do with the broads and conservation. However, both neighbours have velux windows and both got planning permission with no problems. The quality of the work is in question (both the survey and the solicitors highlight problems). If it was just the survey I would be sceptical- I know they like to cover their own backs- but the solicitors have told us independently that the lack of planning permission and the work not meeting building regulations are areas of concern and likely to substantially impact upon cost of work.

DH's Grandad owns a building firm too. He says that the house is a very good buy and easy to improve apart from the kitchen extension and the question of the mis-selling of the attic room. He said that he would be happy to proceed with the purchase if the vendor lowers the price to reflect the extra work needed which legal investigations and survey both independently uncovered.

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TheArmadillo · 01/01/2007 18:12

This situation sounds very similar to the first house I went to buy - even down to the attic extension.

Needing to sell, in our case wasn't a plus as guy wanted/needed full price. THe house was basically about to fall down and we faced years of work. We pulled out in the end and he was dropped by several estate agents.

You seriously need to look at how much stress, money and time this is gonna involve. It is most probably at least a year of work and waiting to be done.

Our house was perfect - everything was right, but we still pulled out in the end. It was too much. Our house now only had a couple of minor problems, but with ds arriving on top of everything else 4 years later we are still finishing bits off. And it is stressful and tiring.

Please think about this very carefully. We found another house just as good, but without the problems. Personally I wouldn't go for it.

noddyholder · 01/01/2007 18:12

Sorry didn't see the bit about removing the stairs.You are allowed a room in the roof but musn't call it a habitable room more an occasional bedroom or hobby room.I would try to renegotiate the price and get indemnity insurance so that you don't need to undo the work done and this also protects the value of the house.

Tinker · 01/01/2007 18:15

Let us know how he repsonds. Only then can you really know what you are going to do. If you have a relative with a building firm, that is good for you - bit cheaper?

crunchie · 01/01/2007 18:21

OK you have a freindly in the family building firm. well in that case I would buy the house, WITH A HUGE REDUCTION as at least you will by the sounds of it be able to get the planning permission and rectify mistakes pretty easily.

Rude question, how much is thehouse? I would look at a reduction of a at least £10K min, if not more

DoesntChristmasDragOn · 01/01/2007 18:25

Personally, I would be expecting him to drop the price by a substantial proportion of the cost required to bring the building work up to legal standards.

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 18:29

Not rude at all. The house is £131,000. I know to a lot of people that doesn't sound a lot, but to me and DH, mid-twenties and first-time buyers, it's a fortune and not money we would offer lightly. We wanted it reduced to £120,000 but will wait to see what the vendor offers.

DH's Grandad owning a building firm is a huge bonus and he knows his stuff and is nothing but honest. He will help us as much as he can, but we don't want to take advantage and will do as much as we can ourselves. MIL and FIL built their own house and BIL is incredibly handy. We won't be short of help or advice, but I am not buying a sub-standard, over-priced house.

We will ask for the vendor to take into account the findings and see what he suggests. I will report back as soon as we know.

Thanks for all of the advice.

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noddyholder · 01/01/2007 18:37

How much is a similar house in teh area without the 'improvements'?

Berries · 01/01/2007 18:50

Bear in mind that the building regs for loft conversions can be pretty extensive, including fire doors on ALL doors opening onto central stairway unless there is designated fire escape in loft, so make sure you get a full quote for all the work before you renegotiate.

Good luck.

Original poster

ShowOfHands · 01/01/2007 18:52

Without improvements probably £112-115,000 depending on various other factors.

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