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Increasingly concerned at censorious PC parenting becoming the norm

142 replies

Twiglett · 30/09/2006 09:58

yes we all want to protect our children and make sure they're well rounded individuals

but where does our idea of what is right stop and our child's right to discover for themselves begin

obvioulsy there are certain boundaries of behaviour

but eg should a child be stopped from exploring physical play methods (a la cowboys and indians) because it doesn't fit with our ideal of a non-violent society

should a child not be allowed a Barbie because we feel it is a bad stereotype

what do you think?

OP posts:
Twiglett · 30/09/2006 12:25

snurk at enid

a woman patently surrounded by Barbies .. some of whom are holding tiny little uzis to her head a la Small Soldiers

OP posts:
emmatom · 30/09/2006 12:25

Exactly Enid!

Enid · 30/09/2006 12:26

cool

burka barbie

soapbox · 30/09/2006 12:37

Isn't part of what we are trying to do as parents about helping our children to make wise choices. If we totally ban the unwise choices then how are they going to learn that skill?

For example - DD has had barbies, bratz and polly pocket in the past, but played with them rarely when on her own - she discovered that actually they were pretty boring and found other things that were more exciting to play with. She would occaisionally play with them if she had friends round, but actually preferred to take an old and battered doll and they played doctors, using rolls of toilet paper as bandages and sellotape as plasters.

If I had banned barbie et al, would she have always lusted after them, thinking how exciting they might be to play with - would she ever have discovered just how mind numbingly boring they are?

My DS has a whole armoury of swords and shields (and only 1 gun which has sadly been lost bought for him by some one outside the family), would he ever have discovered how to sword fight safely, to know how to fight without harming someone else, to know when the fight is getting out of hand, to put the sword down and walk away?

Without his power rangers and ninja turtles and their relative lack of interest as compared to lego and playmobil - would lego and playmobil ever have been so much the favoured toy?

Their lives will be full of choices - more than ours were, and that is both good and bad. I am strongly of the belief that we must equip them to take the best of these choices and to recognise that quick gratification or alluring packaging, or importantly that everyone else has chosen a particular thing, doesn't actually mean it is right for them!

It is a long game - but I hope the lessons learnt will last a whole life time

mum2monkeys · 30/09/2006 12:41

Can I just add my tuppence worth, with regards 'violent' games, my younger sister and I used to play some pretty brutal games with one and other - collecting wind fall plums and apples and hitting them at each other with swing ball bats - we never had guns, the games we played were mostly imaginery and we were outside a lot.... I think a lot of young childrens play can be percieved as anti social in todays society and I do think that kids can be over policed by adults but I think a lot of this is because of paranoia and inflammatory press coverage.
The 'game' my sister and I played had 'rules', we had to remain a certain distance from each other, and took it in turns to hit the fruit so the other could 'defend' with their swing ball batthese were rules we made ourselves we were 7 and 8 at the time - I would also like to add that we are total wimps and as adults will run away at the slightest sign of confrontation.
My point, it is natural for kids to play a bit rough, I think it's part of learning about consequences and that some rough play is good and healthy on the otherhand continuously being exposed to inappropriate tv or adult behaviour is not.
As for Barbie v Sindy we had both, we never liked Sindy because her head was way out of proportion with her body - never really noticed their bodies (think that's just marketing to Dads!!) as we were lobbing them up the stream at the end of our garden - 'diving/swimming competition'

Saturn74 · 30/09/2006 12:46

Society has changed so much in the last 30 or so years.

When my mother had me, she was living in the town where she grew up, knew pretty much everyone, had her mother, her MIL and lots of other family members around to ask for advice, saw lots of other mothers parenting their children.

There was a real feeling of community.

I wasn't allowed to play out on a Sunday, and my grandparents thought this was harsh, but didn't pass these views on to my parents - because their opinion wasn't sought.

When I had DS1 I was living 300 miles from my mother, had left full-time work so knew few other mothers, and felt quite isolated.

I had terrible problems establishing breastfeeding, and in the end I gave up at 6 weeks, after advice from my mother during a telephone conversation. She had bottlefed all her children.

It wasn't what I wanted to do - but I knew of no-one else to ask.

I think that the media gives a very forceful view of how parents, and mothers in particular, should be, and that is hard to resist sometimes.

I also think that we should rely on our instincts more - every child, every parent and every family is different, and need different things.

It is, however, very hard to stand up for what you believe in if you feel alone and inexperienced, and there are very forceful characters advising you of what to do for your child - whether that is a health visitor, an aquaintance, a teacher, or a person on an internet forum etc.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - but why force this opinion on others if it will only cause hurt and upset?

Advice and judgement are not the same thing.

I think there is huge pressure on us all to be the same, and many are quick to criticise others who are not the same as them.

As long as a child is safe from harm, happy, loved and educated, the specifics are up to the individual parents - and everyone should be given the freedom from criticism to allow them to live as they wish.

mum2monkeys · 30/09/2006 12:54

Well said HC, can't stand people telling me how to raise my kids as long as they are happy, healthy and safe I don't see why I need to conform to anyone else ideas of 'ideal' parenting.

pointydog · 30/09/2006 13:56

But heavy duty marketing of things people consider crap isn't likely to change. I don't think censoring has any long-term impact. I think kids need to be taught to look at all media images and text with a critical eye. It's all about that skill of making wise choices that someone said. And taking the piss sometimes.

pointydog · 30/09/2006 13:57

Soapbox, you said it.

oops · 30/09/2006 14:10

Message withdrawn

flashingnose · 30/09/2006 14:34

Great post soapbox.

I was being pestered by my kids to buy Cocopops Straws when they first came out as they'd seen the advert.

Usually, I have to admit I would just say "no, you're not having those because of x y z" but this time, I thought I'd give in and see what happened.

Cue Saturday morning, they were bursting with excitement, everyone took one bite and....they hated them! Rest of the box went in the bin. For the money it cost, it was a great way of demonstrating the power of advertising to them.

ruty · 30/09/2006 14:40

agree with Blu and F&Z.

oops · 30/09/2006 14:49

Message withdrawn

BBWBabeLisa · 30/09/2006 14:52

I wouldn't stop DD playing with guns, Daddy's a soldier and there are photos of him with very big guns around, DD even has her own mini set of combats at 9 months (just coz she looks so much like her daddy we had to get a photo of them both in uniform!). Mummy is a 20 stone mountain of a woman, who Daddy constantly refers to as the most beautiful woman on earth, so I doubt playing with Barbies would skew DD's self-image too much, if anything it might give a bit of balance so she doesn't think size 30 is the ideal!

BBWBabeLisa · 30/09/2006 15:01

I must add, on the food front - I put a large part of the blame for my weight on my upbringing. I grew up in a home where healthy food was unknown and it was chips with everything. I didn't even know what a mushroom was til I was about 14! On visits home I constantly battle with my family to stop them feeding DD chocolate, and other crap. They think I'm wierd coz I cook fresh food for her, and only give her fruit to snack on. I was considered a freak for wanting to breastfeed, and every time DD cried I faced cries of "she's hungry, its not fair on her, give her a bottle". I'm not SMUG about what I feed DD and don't think I'm better than anyone else (I can't stand the healthy stuff myself so am in no position to criticise anyone), but I'm extrememly proud of the effort I make and the stand I take on what DD does and doesn't eat. I developed diabetes at age 30. She won't.

BBWBabeLisa · 30/09/2006 15:08

I see the point Emmatom is trying to make with that email, I received it too, from my mother surprise surprise. The point I'm making is, yes "We ate cup cakes, white bread and real butter and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because ....WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!!! " HOWEVER, when I got to my teenage years and was no longer outside playing all the time my food habits had been well and truly formed and I started to balloon. OK, am getting off my soapbox now and going to do some ironing.

Quadrophenia · 30/09/2006 15:28

snort @ this thread
< goes off to tidy up dd's barbies safe in the knowledge that dd will not grow up wanting to have a tiny waist, huge boobs and a boyfriend called ken>

ruty · 30/09/2006 15:39

good for you BabeLisa.

franca70 · 30/09/2006 15:57

haven't read the full thread, just wanted to say that barbie is nothing compared to the bratz, those are really scary.
having said that, I spent the happiest years of my life playing with barbies, sewing clothes for them , letting them having babies, being in love with ken, being jealous because I only had one ken....
As a child, I couldn't care less about her proportions, to me, she was just an instrument to make up stories. My woman role model was my teacher of italian literature at middle school (and yes, I played with barbiaes untili was 12!)
I second batters post and:
LOL, LOL: So yes my dd played with Barbies. But I am blooming sure that as a result she doesn't want a 48 inch chest, a boyfriend who is quite obviously a closet homosexual with commitment issues and a mermaid's tail. Rant over.

moondog · 30/09/2006 22:21

Ah Twig,George Walden's theory (read review of his book 'New Elites') is that we live in an 'ultra-democracy'in which dissent from the mass mind and mass taste is an unpardonable sin.

I think he is absolutely right.

3monkeys · 30/09/2006 22:38

My DD loves Barbie, Bratz and polly pocket. Having DS1 who has struggled to fit in, I have no problem with her wanting what other kids have, within reason. If She wants something she's seen advertised and I don't want her to have it, I say no!
I hope that I am a better role model to them all than Barbie - I'm bringing up 3 clever, polite healthy children and I work hard and if they eat chips occasionally, it won't kill them!

nearlythree · 30/09/2006 22:43

I think you can subvert these things. You could have Feminist Barbie telling Slapper Barbie that she looks stupid. And if you play Cowboys with a ds yours could be a lurve gun.

(And you could have Cannible Action Man putting Bratz in the pot, but maybe that's going a bit too far?)

fatfox · 30/09/2006 22:45

I think we read too many parenting books and I think we read them because we're the first (or maybe second) generation to be bringing our children up away from extended families. OK some of us have extended families around us, but most don't. I think the books have taken the place of having your family there on the spot to advise you.

IMO these parenting gurus are just making a packet out of bringing out new theories all the time and guilt tripping parents. I grew up on Sindy dolls and consider myself to be a bit of a feminist. My Mum never worried about how she brought us up, she just go on with it.

DD loves everything pink, fluffy and Barbie and "Barbie's world" is a lot less nasty than the real world, so I don't think it will harm her (she also likes guns ).

I think we let ourselves get too neurotic about all this "advice" that is constantly handed out by experts.

Common sense should prevail!

kittywits · 30/09/2006 22:47

Here, here Fatfox

fatfox · 30/09/2006 23:06

Pass the red wine

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