Miffed, angry...more than a little peeved - child unfriendly work policy

[handlemecarefully]

The hospital where I work is hard pressed for parking. So from 1st May they are implementing a blanket policy whereby all staff will be barred from parking on site for one day a week. On the day they can't park on site they are expected to use a park and ride (i.e. drive to outskirts of the city in question and then take the mini bus from there to work).

I don't particularly have a problem with this in principle, but - we have an on site day nursery for staff.....and staff users of that on site day nursery (i.e. includes me)are not granted an exemption. So effectively what they are asking me (and others) to do is drive to the outskirts of the city and then take our children (in my case when I return from mat leave in October a 6 month old baby and a just turned 2 year old)on the bus a couple of miles to the Hospital where we can plonk them in the on site Nursery and then start work. Well, I can't be fitting a 1st stage and 2nd stage car seat on the frigging bus morning and evening (and then refitting it in my car to do the final leg home)...its totally impractical..and I really don't think the rest of the workers on the bus will be too patient waiting whilst I spend 20 minutes faffing around with car seats. Heaven only knows where I am to stow the car seats when I get to work too, and how I am to carry 2 children plus 2 car seats from the bus to the entrance of the Day Nursery on arrival. I think there is a good case for staff users of the on site Day Nursery to be exempt from this policy.

When this issue was raised with our staff side representative ( a woman but a childless woman) she "Didn't see the issue"....Apparently she has seen "Lots of women using the number 10 bus with their tiny tots without using car seats". Now that really got my %$£"! blood boiling....I don't care what some other mums do - if they want to (sorry if I offend) risk their children that's up to them, but the hospital can't require me to risk my children (that's a very personal choice) and I would no more take them on a bus where I can't secure them in a proper car seat than fly to the frigging moon. Infant car seats aren't for merely decorative value or a fashion accessory - there to save lives aren't they???

What do you think of this? - and do any of you have any accident statistics I can quote about infant morbidity and mortality pre the introduction of child car seats?

(And if you happen to agree with the hospital and don't think on site nursery users should be granted an exemption, could you put it tactfully...because I am pregnant and hormonal at the moment and my bp needs to be kept stable)

Or at the least you could also ask for the minibus to detour to drop people directly at the nursery door?

If this minibus is being organised by your employer, I think you should write a letter to Human Resources saying that as a woman employee with two children using the creche provided by your employer, you are worried that this new policy may have a disproportionate impact upon you unfairly. Then say that you are making a reasonable request for assistance with using the minibus one day a week, viz you will need the driver to give you physical assistance getting on and off carrying all your necessary baby equipment (although I don't really know what it would be, if they regularly attend the same Nursery), and the driver must either transfer your two carseats for you at either end, or they should be providing suitable carseats for your children's use free of charge. Also say that you would like reassurance that the driver of the minibus will have done suitable training for driving a minibus such as the MIDASS qualification. Incidentally, I have a car but we often use buses, Tubes and trains without carseats because I believe that real life is not perfect and I know that there are very many places where there is no parking available.

Hmc I understand why you are miffed off, but I also think taht for 1 day a week it isn't that bad surely. Everybody knows that driving to work/parking is causing problems so it's good to see employers taking steps to change things. All mothers shouldn't be exempt just because they have young children or the plans would never work.

Incidentaly I use buses regularly with ds, and he stays in his buggy. Whats the big deal? You wouldn't expect your kids to be strapped in on a train so why is a bus any different? And trains travel at a much faster rate than buses.

gosh, it had really never occurred to me that someone might want to take a car seat on a bus (and how would it work anyway as there isn't anywhere to strap it in?) I've just got back from a bus ride where I was carrying ds2 (3 months) in my arms (forgot the sling and wanted to leave the buggy at nursery). I think its a great shame that some people seem to view the use of public transport as something a bit strange that requires all sorts of special organisation - I use it lots and ds1 loves it, but a lot of my friends seem never to go near a bus...
Now, one thing that I have pondered is what to do in taxis - obviously a removable first stage car seat can be taken with you, but what do you do for older babies and toddlers? Or do you all just never use taxis either?

I use the lap straps in taxis. But am not totally comfortable with it, especially on motorways. With the bus it's more the issue for me of waiting for irregular buses with 2 mobile but irresponsible toddlers, never knowing whether it'll be a low-liner which permits buggies, and having to constantly apologise when on the bus to people who think children shouldn't be allowed.

Am big fan of public transport but find the bus + 2 toddler scenario fairly horrible.

I've sent the attached email to the Transport lead for the Trust and copied in to the Director of Human Resources (its quite long, I've copied and pasted it):

I welcome the review of car parking and the radical proposals that are coming forward. Something very definitely needs to be done to resolve the situation ? primarily for the benefit of patients and visitors who have a very stressful time attempting to secure a parking space prior to their appointment. Obviously resolution of this problem is going to require a change in staff parking arrangements.

However I have a number of concerns as a staff user of the on site Day Nursery regarding being barred from car parking on site one day a week. I currently have a 19 month old toddler at Day Nursery and when I return from maternity leave in October I will also have a 6 month old baby in Nursery. It seems counter-intuitive to me to provide a family friendly facility such as an on site Day Nursery (which has proven invaluable to me and others), but then to implement this policy without exemptions for staff users of the Day Nursery.

If I am to use park and ride one day a week with my two small children, you will need to provide a very specific type of bus. It will need to be a ?mobility style? bus which has a lowered floor so that I and other Day Nursery users can wheel buggies straight onto the bus. Otherwise I will be forced to lift the combined weight of a double buggy plus the combined weight of two children (buggy 10 lbs, toddler circa 30 lbs, baby circa 10-15 lbs = total 50-55lbs) up onto the bus which is clearly unworkable.

The type of bus is important as well ? if a mini bus, I will not need to use a buggy but it will be necessary for all seats to be provided with a 3 point safety belt so that I (and other and other Day Nursery users) can install my baby?s 1st stage car seat and my toddlers 2nd stage car seat onto the mini bus. In this situation, the other passengers and driver will have to exercise patience and forbearance in that I will need 15 to 20 minutes (no exaggeration) to do this (2nd stage car seats for 9 month to 4 year olds are not truly portable, and are not designed to be fitted and refitted into vehicles on a regular basis - they are fiddly and difficult to secure properly). This will clearly significantly delay all passengers onward journey whilst they wait for me and other mothers to secure their children. You cannot expect mums to use mini buses which do not provide 3 point safety belts for installation of car seats ? it is extremely unsafe to transport children who are not properly secured ? some statistics for you:

In a 30 mph crash a child not properly restrained will be thrown forward with a force 30 to 60 times their body weight
When suitably restrained a child is 90% less likely to be killed, 75% less likely to be seriously injured and 67% less likely to be slightly injured

Essentially car seats for pre school children are not a fashion accessory or optional extra but are necessary to save lives.

If a full size ?number 10 bus? style vehicle is to be provided rather than a mini bus, the 3 point safety belts can be waived and there is less requirement for car seats. This is because the child can be relatively secure (although frankly I am still not happy with this from a safety perspective) within their buggy. Moreover ?big buses? move more slowly and are very unlikely to roll in a collision. However I reiterate then point about drop flooring to allow buggies to mount the bus.

Either way you will need to liaise with TOPs Day Nursery as they will need to provide storage for most of their parents to stow their buggies and car seats whilst at work ? I don?t believe they have sufficient space for this.

As you can see park and ride is not a straight forward option for staff with children at the on site Day Nursery ? in fact it is hugely inconvenient and logistically very difficult. Much more so than it would be if I was travelling solo on the park and ride. I should point out that with park and ride my 30 minute door to door commute from Landford to the Day Nursery will no longer be feasible, and I would need to allow up to twice that time to get to work. As I start work at 07.45 this will necessitate getting my children up at around 05.30 / 05.45 in the morning (it must be worse for staff on early shifts). Whilst this is fine for me, I think it is detrimental to my children?s welfare. It is already a very marginal decision for me to return to work after maternity leave ? the cost of childcare for 2 children is absorbing the majority of my salary. I think this sort of issue is likely to tip the balance in favour of me not returning, and presumably it will do the same for colleagues in a similar position.

I have considered driving to Day Nursery to drop off my children and then driving to the park and ride to park my car, only to catch the bus to return on site. I think you have to acknowledge that this is not a reasonable proposition. It would also necessitate me dropping of my children at around 06.30 / 06.45 in the morning in order to allow sufficient time for me to be at my desk by 07.45. This is totally unfair since I would need to pay for an additional 45 mins to 1 hour of nursery care at both ends of the day as a direct consequence of not being able to park on site ? and I would not have commensurate salary to cover this additional nursery time (as I am salaried only from my work start time of 08.45)

The other option is to work from home on the day when I am not granted on site parking. However since I only work 3 days per week, this ostensibly would mean that I am on site a mere two days per week. I think my line manager (and I would sympathise with her on this) would have something to say about that ? given that my work requires me to meet with other senior managers and clinicians on a regular basis ? very difficult if I?m only available for meetings 2 days weekly.

Congratulations for getting to the end of this email. I am not being obstructive and do understand the requirement to do something radical about parking ? but I reiterate that the park and ride solution is very impractical and fraught with issues for staff with children using the on site Day Nursery.

..................................................I think some of you are oversimplifying the bus issue (as my copied and pasted email will show). Thanks for the feedback however - both supportive
and sceptical

Bugger me sidewides! - there was a typo in my email to the transport manager (I start work at 07.45 not 08.45)

Actually meant 'bugger me sideways' - see this issue is causing me so much stress I've become dysphasic

HMC, from this discussion has emerged a brilliant e-mail!
Personally, I am a keen public transport user (with a baby and a child of 4) and don't consider it any more risky than either driving with them or negotiating London pavements.
I do feel, like Sofia and others said, that the type of bus they provide is going to be crucial in making this work for parents at the hospital. I hope they recognise that for you and the other parents a minibus is not going to be suitable, and they need a low-loader, open plan single decker.
Good luck and I hope you and the other affected parents get a solution you're happy with.

Why thank you Marina, I shall revel in your praise for a bit

Thats a very well constructed letter hmc, keep us posted of your developments.

hmc, I have to say that's a well argued letter - I do agree that a minibus is a bit of a different proposition to a regular bus (whether buggy friendly or double decker)
Just a thought - is it one day a week for everyone regardless of how many days a week they work? That seems disproportionately unfair for part-timers....

Yes Elliott - it does disadvantage part timers. I will be affected 33% of my working week, whilst full timers will be affected 20% of their working week

Yes, can't your one day a week be the day you are not there?

Fennel,

Nice try but apparently not....

HMC

The letter is very well put together and balanced well done

One point, can you clarify why if you work 3 days per week you are effected by this new rule? Does every employee have to P&R one day per week regardless of the number of days that they work? Surely as a PT worker your requirement should be pro rata - i.e you do this once a month rather than every week

Sorry my email crossed with the others

I agree - are you sure your one day won't be classed as one of the days you're not working?

Crossed posts...

Makes no sense.

hmc - agree that minibus is totally unworkable proposition but full-size bus is totally different IMO. This is because I don't think that the car seats option is viable. I'm also unsure why you think you would need a double buggy for this journey. Definitely think that a drop outside the nursery should be offered which would minimise your distance with children in tow.

Also at my DS's nursery we used to regularly leave his stage one baby seat because I did the drop and DH did the collect. Once we moved onto the next stage we forked out for two car seats. And I know people who live/work locally who used to leave buggies.

Also agree that yours should be one day a fortnight.

I think you have a case but think that other employees will be able to kick up a stink if some people are allowed to park near to the hospital because they happen to have children!!

This thread really hits nerves with me as I am on both sides of the fence. Am member of anti-car use pro-cycling groups and also now am car-commuter for first time in life as the only way I see to get dds to workplace creche (half the price and far better than local private crap options we tried for 2 years). Am in constant guilt about it.

think your email was good HMC hope it gets a response.

Wonderfully worded email HMC - good luck and let us know the response.

I'm on your side hmc and wouldn't use a minibus without seatbelts. A bigger bus is a different matter and I have used these with the kids on my knee, although I wouldn't want to make it a regular occurence.

I must say I find it hard to understand this 'just because they happen to have children' issue. Why don't we abolish sick pay too (to save the feelings of those who are always well) etc, etc. I think that if society wants the services of workers in 20/30 yrs time, then they have to give reasonable support to the families of those future service providers (ie, children). Unless we just want to say right, all those with young children, stop working altogether because you're just too much trouble.

With a bit of help and consideration from our fellow man, it should be possible for those with children to be integrated into society and to be given help when it's needed. Otherwise, to take things to their logical conclusion, we might as well abolish hospitals altogether (after all, they're only for those who happen to get sick, tsk)in which case hmc would have neither the job nor the problem.