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Quality of Life Today

216 replies

Bugsy · 05/02/2002 13:52

Now this is not meant to be a party political thing, but I want to know whether people think that life in this country has improved in the last decade. I am feeling particularly hacked off today, hideous commute, crappy project and grumpy toddler pre-work but I think my quality of life is slowly going down the toilet.
Since I started working, some 10 years ago, I've watched the tube service get worse, the train service get worse, local hospitals close departments & wards, traffic congestion increase, parking become more difficult & expensive. One way or another through NI, VAT, road tax my tax burden has increased and I can't help wondering what is going on.
Do other people feel like this, or am I just Mrs Misery today? As I say, I am not trying to get at any one political party but I would be interested to know how others feel about their quality of life in the UK over the last 10 years.

OP posts:
tiktok · 13/03/2002 12:45

Sorry, Robinw, I am sure you mean to be helpful, but why would a mother need all that herbal stuff or beer to promote prolactin secretion if she has no problem with her milk supply (and nothing Jasper said indicated a problem with supply)? And why would warm water compresses help with sore nipples? I have never heard of this one, though always willing to learn...provided there's a research-base though bags and bags of anecdotal stuff will do, as not everything good in bf is research-based, I know

robinw · 13/03/2002 21:58

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tiktok · 13/03/2002 23:08

Sorry to make you sigh, Robin! Constant sucking is physiological, biologically symbiotic, if you like...beer and herbs are interventions, possibly appropriate when there is a problem with supply. Which there wasn't.

Breastfeeding counsellors tend to support the normal, and explain the normal...we tend not to suggest interventions when there is no need for them. I think that's sensible. I don't think it's true that we don't accept there are some women we don't help....that would be extremely arrogant. Sorry you have that impression - not from me I hope.

The tea bag study (Lavergne, 1997) neither prevented nor reduced soreness, according to my textbooks. Thanks for the refs to the warm water compresses - I can't access the studies, or even the abstracts, so it may be they are just reporting in an anecdotal way what women can use, without evaluting whch measures are helpful. That in itself is ok - as I said, anecdotal stuff is ok, as sometimes, the research just hasn't been done. I have found refs to this as a comfort measure on another American site, as well, though no mention of it elsewhere, nowhere in any UK books on my shelves, and it is not listed in Enabling Women to Breastfeed, which is entirely research-based. So I suppose it has just passed me by, though it would be good to see even a small trial comparing its effectiveness with other things. I'm glad you found it helpful.

tiktok · 13/03/2002 23:10

To correct myself - literally constant sucking, with the baby never happy, would not be not normal.

berries · 14/03/2002 13:34

Jasper, no medical back up to this at all, but I was advised to express a bit of milk at the end of every feed and rub it on the nipples to help ease the soreness. Did help to some extent so may be worth a try. Hope everything settles down soon.

robinw · 15/03/2002 05:55

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tiktok · 15/03/2002 10:25

Robin, I have never said what you said I did, so where the impression that 'however long the baby spends sucking at the breast it is totally and completely normal' comes from, I don't know.

I don't think that....babies need to take time out and sleep sometime

If a baby seems to take a long time at the breast, and we need to look at frequency as well as length of time per occasion, then the things we need to look at are:

  • what are the mother's expectations? 'Long time' to some could simply be more than the '10 minutes a side' of old. So many babies take more time than this (or less in some cases) and making a prescriptive time is not helpful

  • what is the baby actually doing there? Is he transferring milk effectively? Lots of ways to judge this

  • is the mother sore/cracked and not getting any better?

  • is this a temporary thing, connected with the baby's needs now? It's certainly very common in the very early days

  • is the baby happy or (as sometimes happens) is he miserable no matter how long he feeds for?

  • is the mother able to cope better if she goes with the flow, and would she be helped if someone else was around who was willing to hold the baby when the baby needs it?

  • does the baby fight at the breast?

And there are other issues that I suggest make the black-and-white stance you attribute to me quite unfair.

I agree - the idea that however long a baby sucks we should accept it because it is normal does indeed cause mothers to stop. Support for breastfeeding can be very poor, and women are told to put up with sore nipples and a constantly miserable baby etc because somehow or other it's supposed to get fixed all by itself . L...o...n...g feeds which do not satisfy the baby need fixing.

You say, "For a baby to suck frequently for a few days to build up supply may be normal but to do so for weeks isn't."

On what evidence do you base this? You need to make a distinction between 'long' sucking and 'frequent sucking'. Long, unsatisfying feeds are not normal. Frequent feeds can well be normal, and if you look in some of the anthropological stuff about bf you'll see that in some societies babies feed on and off the breast all the time - every 15 minutes at some points in the day! Short bursts of sucking while the mother gets on with something else are normal for them. No one (except the anthropologist) is counting or watching the clock.

This would be very unusual in our society, and we do tend to space babies' feeds even unconsciously, making the most of some babies' ability to sleep alone and contentedly away from the breast, so for us, this is normal, but if a mother and her baby are ok with frequent feeds (usually short) then that's normal for them!

I did do a Medline search for those studies - must have missed them. Those interventions could be useful, as they are easy and cheap enough to do! My slight worry is that any intervention to help with sore nipples would have to be alongside checking position and attachment. I have come across many women who have been advised to use shields, creams, ointments whatever, without anyone who really knows what they are looking for checking their positioning.

sobernow · 15/03/2002 21:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

emmagee · 15/03/2002 22:31

Sobernow, when I had my first baby I had incredibly sore breasts when my milk came in, really engorgred etc. Because I had a section I was in hospital for 5/6 days so my husband used to bring frozen cabbage leaves in, in a cool bag. Along with a homeopathic remedy, they were amazing - I always knew when a fresh one was needed as the smell of warm cabbage stared to rise!

pamina · 15/03/2002 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MalmoMum · 16/03/2002 03:19

Seems like a waste of good fizz to use it as an embrocation. Impressed you didn't need a whole bottle!

robinw · 16/03/2002 11:33

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Pupuce · 16/03/2002 11:48

Tiktok, I don't think everything in life has evidence to back it up and so much is "mental"... if I believe a teab bag will help, it may well do. Becasue there hasn't been an official study that proved it doesn't mean it doesn't work.

tiktok · 16/03/2002 12:02

Not sure if you are deliberately 'misunderstanding' me, Robin, or if you can't help it. I don't think we should all do what women in other cultures do (and I certainly didn't use the word 'primitive' either) - I was pointing out that definitions of frequent feeding are often dependent on culturally-induced expectations. What is so difficult about that? Why do you believe I would even dream of thinking 'we' all should do this?

Child-care practices are to a large extent affected by the world around us... that's all I meant. Sheesh.

tiktok · 16/03/2002 13:13

Pupuce, I didn't say I disbelieved anything - it's always good to see evidence where it exists, but confidence is such an important motivator in breastfeeding, too, of course, as you imply.I think it's helpful when interventions can be evaluated, so the max. no. of women can be helped if they hit problems. Some things are tried and tested without having had the benefit of good research, though, and I keep an open mind.

serena · 16/03/2002 21:56

Cabbage leaves worked for me too.
PS I was mistakenly under the impression that breast fed babies didn't need winding, and I think I had a very colicky baby who I just fed regardless. With No. 2 I used to lay her across my knees on her front to wind her and also overcame my horror of infacol. One drop used to make my daughter pause thoughtfully, and usually solved the problem that was making her cry. Not for everyone I can see.

PS2 Interesting outcome to the breastfeeding issue in H of C. The speaker is a farty old bloke after all, and the HofC is a farty Old Bloke's club. I'm definitely joining the Libdems.

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