So, us rotten lot....

[scarredpierced]

How many of us actually meet Shona's little sidekicks criteria?
She states that all of us on Mumsnet are in our 30s, living in London and have a degree. How many people here meet that criteria?
How many are popping prozac depressed at the shit life we now have with kids?
Damn that woman is nasty!

And we aren't all made like Xenia, we're all different.

If we were like her, taking the algorithm idea, if you put the same in perhaps you'd get the same out.

But we're all different. So it makes no sense to say if you do what I do you will be as happy and successful as I am. Not necessarily Xenia, for all sorts of reasons !

• I take it an algorithm is a fancy word for a formula !

I think that Xenia could have a very positive message, but she ruins it by her complete disregard for people with with different values- and her inability to see that she finds her life wonderful and can't imagine why we wouldn't all want to do it. I could possibly stick it for 2 years if I viewed it like a prison sentence and I got release at the end to use the money earned the way that I wanted.
I would hate, hate, hate to live or work in London.
I have no wish to pay school fees-I use the best of the state system.
I want time not money.
I loved being with my DCs full time for the very short time they were little.
None of my career choices would be likely to pay a high salary but interest comes first with me.

I can quite see why people do want to do it-and if so then aim for it-just don't assume that we should all want it.
And as the mother of DSs I want them to aim high too-just as important as DDs. I wouldn't treat them differently and am thankful that my parents never treated me any differently than my brothers.

Yes, different values, but also different personalities and let's face it (speaking for myself) abilities exotic

Specifically the ability I know I don't have in spades is the ability for complex multi-tasking (hence my NN ). I need a simpler life than Xenia, and thankfully usually that has worked out pretty well for me - I have many blessings (especially DD and DS) and have already had a very interesting life (including traveling and living abroad amongst other things). If the future is gently downhill from now on with maybe a couple of grandkids thrown in at some point I think I shall be quite content.

• Though I do see some work in the picture too - hopefully continuing to support other families and children, as I find that both an interesting and worthwhile occupation - and surely just as stimulating as any other work ?

'The ambition is there but there are points in life where our own goals have to be given second place. I was not happy with the standard of care available, so I felt putting my career on hold was best for MY kids, considering their individual needs' - that's the thing isn't it. I know a few people with ishoos who feel that they weren't put first as children and it has had a life long impact. A lot of people can put their children first AND work full time, but for others there just isn't the family support/childcare opportunities/income for good childcare. Personally I know that had I worked full time after my children were first born I would have got very engrossed in work and they would have had a raw deal - I respect people who have better boundaries than that though.

Why oh why is it always the women who seem to think= presumably because they are in sexist marriages - that because you are female you are the one to stay home with a special needs or any other child. That is the snake in the grass, the error, the cause of all wrong. What is wrong with the husbands of these women that the husbands are not also saying my child has special needs to he must have a father at home? It is sexist to the core and results in huge damage to women and their families. It is very often sexism which the root of evil.

I would suggest that couples sort it out themselves Xenia. I absolutely loved being at home with DCs - DH would not have liked it. It suited us- nothing remotely sexist about it. When I was a single parent I had 5 yrs off and didn't work- that certainly wasn't sexist ( there was no man)- I was able to suit myself and do exactly as I wanted.

Xenia seems incapable of seeing a marriage as a team rather than competition. No one would think that DH was your best friend in addition to everything else, the person that you want to spend the rest of your life with, and that you actually discuss it before you have DCs and work out life to suit you both.

DH's salary is my salary too- joint money- he couldn't earn it without me.

Xenia, you hugely, hugely project.
Emotional intelligence and empathy are just as important as passing all exams and high achieving/earning.
Some women don't just choose a good career path, they can also choose a good life partner.

Why though do women time and again marry up? Why is mumsnet littered with women whose husbands earn £20k more so when it comes to who gives up work it's always the little woman? It's because women subconsciously choose the good providers who are above them, who are a bit brighter, a bit better educated and therefore who earn more and often are older. You rarely get the leading female surgeon marrying the hospital cleaner but yo might well get the leading male doctor marrying the pretty nurse with the nice legs. It is one of the main causes of misery for women and failure of women to advance in society - this marrying up thing.

In the words of Jessie J- "It's not about the money, money money..." :)

I much prefer mucking out the horses, walking the dog and reading the paper than working.

Do I lack ambition?

Am I little?

Why is mumsnet littered with women whose husbands earn £20k more..

The answer to that is that very often men are paid more than women. There are very few women who are paid more than men at the point in their careers where decisions about childcare have to be made. Even men straight out of university get better offers than women graduates.

Ask employers why they pay women less and you will be asking the right question. The one you are asking here is not It.

And because you ask the wrong question the analysis that follows is unfounded.

The main cause of misery for women is pay disparity. Pay disparity exists at every single level of every single occupation, be it professional or unskilled, and all points between. That and undervaluing of the work done mainly by women. The nurse or the midwife is only the underling because 'she' is paid less than she really should be paid.

'Marrying up' exists because men tend to be the ones who are 'up', and they are up because at every single point of their careers they are paid more.

I am more intelligent than my DH. He works. I don't. Quids in.

I didn't marry up.(whatever that means- I guess it is based in money). If we are talking about who brought more assets to the marriage it was me. DH earns more but that is because my first choice of career doesn't earn a lot but salary was never a deciding factor.
Marriage is a partnership - being parents is a partnership and how people work that partnership is nothing to do with anyone else and very rude of people to make assumptions. You do not have to have children- I get so fed up with the view that childcare is a trap instead of the best thing I have ever done. I can't see why paid employment is so important - it is something you do in order to live the life you want.

Just thinking surely it's quite a bright thing to do to marry someone brighter than you ? ... if you've got the looks, the wit, and the charm