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Original poster

This article about sex really depressed me

143 replies

Caligula · 15/04/2006 14:43

\link{http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1753327,00.html\here}

And made me think we need a new dose of feminist conscious-raising. I'm aghast to think my DD will grow up in a world where she's expected to do this mechanical sex and wax her pubes and be treated like a whore as a normal dating experience.

Come back Mary Whitehouse, all is forgiven

OP posts:
Pruni · 15/04/2006 21:53

I completely agree, and I think it's one of the saddest things (in both senses) that a friend could have told me. It's laughable on one level, and gross, but just so desperate on another. I took her up on the comment and she absolutely believes that because women get turned on by porn as much as men, they are entitled to use it to meet their needs too. I can't help but think this is a telescoping of a few different issues into one comment on the consumer culture being described here.

spacedonkey · 15/04/2006 21:54

It's not a new phenomenon, but as the article points out the huge explosion of internet use (since the mid 1990s) has made porn much more accessible (if not unavoidable). Also lad mags which became very popular at about the same time.

Socci · 15/04/2006 21:56

Wasn't there another thread on here recently about men's magazines and how they portray women?

spacedonkey · 15/04/2006 21:59

I think the argument that porn can "empower" women is absolute bullshit. I know I don't feel empowered by it, or by the bombardment of porn-like imagery in the media in general.

Does anyone here feel that this portrayal of women and sex "empowers" them in any way?

Pruni · 15/04/2006 22:03

But you can see how women can get sucked in to thinking that it is empowering, can't you? It's like porn was off-limits for our parents' generation adn now we have full access and lots of encouragement, and it feels good (for a moment). Everything else that was off-limits for them is now a sign of women's emancipation, I can see why it is confusing.

winnie · 15/04/2006 22:03

Spacedonkey, no I don't feel empowered by it but I think there are a whole generation of teenagers who do :( The 16/17 year olds in the article really do represent the girls of that age that I know :(

Socci · 15/04/2006 22:03

I think the internet makes everything more accessible these days, but only if you go looking for it, surely? A lot of unsavoury things are available if you look for them - pro-anorexia sites, sites where people encourage each other to feel suicidal, etc and much worse too. I was shocked to read in that article that extreme porn is becoming more "normal" to teenagers - I hope that isn't really true.

spacedonkey · 15/04/2006 22:05

It is true though. Teenagers will look at it if it's out there, and it really is out there! All you need is google image search with the filters switched off.

Pruni · 15/04/2006 22:08

You don't have to go looking for it. I just googled my friend's mum's name (to see if I could find her email address) and she shares her name with what I imagine is a pretty full-on comprehensive porn star. Nothing left to the imagination...and that's without clicking on any sites.

morningpaper · 15/04/2006 22:10

Yes spacedonkey - I remember how I drooled with fascination over the pencil drawings in "The Joy of Sex"- I can't imagine what I would have done with a world of porn at my fingertips.

(Put me off beards for life.)

winnie · 15/04/2006 22:10

I believe it is more about "the bombardment of porn-like imagery in the media in general" than simply what is on the internet.

spacedonkey · 15/04/2006 22:10

Grin mp

my dp has an uncannily similar beard ...

spacedonkey · 15/04/2006 22:11

Yes winnie, it is, but that process of "pornification" accelerated with the internet I think

Original poster
Caligula · 15/04/2006 22:12

Those people in the joy of sex always looked like they never wore deodorant or used shower gel didn't they.

If that book was done today, there'd be no beards or pubes

OP posts:
morningpaper · 15/04/2006 22:12

I also agree with the previous comment (by Moondog) about the sex portrayal of women in music videos - watching MTV is truly shocking - women = sex objects and nothing more.

Watching videos from the 1980s (the Eurythmics etc) - everyone is wearing jumpers and long trousers, it is incredibly wholesome!

spacedonkey · 15/04/2006 22:15

Agree re: MTV. I watch it with dd sometimes and am gratified that she picks up on the relentlessly porn-like imagery to the point of ridiculousness.

"Oh I know, let's be really different and make an R&B video with some writhing girls in bikinis!"

Pruni · 15/04/2006 22:18

Did anyone read that Observer article by Pink? About exactly that.

Calig, in the Joy of Sex they recommended the use of "your own intimate perfume", smeared on the pulse points. Also some element of limited washing and no deodorants. I know this because a friend followed their instructions to the letter to see if she could pull her flatmate.

Heathcliffscathy · 15/04/2006 22:18

mp, it's so weird but earlier i wrote a whole post about how wholesome the guy exploring his woman's hairy armpits as erogenous zone in the joy of sex was.....i shave my armpits....why? why is the hair that grows under my arms disgusting?

in the future will women be completely denuded of hair? will the hollywood become as commonplace as shaving your pits?

what is going on with that?

Heathcliffscathy · 15/04/2006 22:18

meant to say, i wrote the post but then had to make ds's supper so didn't hit the send button

monkeytrousers · 15/04/2006 22:18

Pruni, it's all part of the same self deception that woman partake in - because men have it, it must be worth having..

lilstarry1 · 15/04/2006 22:19

This is all very interesting, and I'd say a positive sign that not all women are mindless drones who aspire to nothing more than meeting the needs of men..

"I don't know what you mean about 'dirty' 'naughty' etc. In what context are you talking about them?'

As in saying "naughty thoughts" or "Dirty jokes", IYSWIM, might not be making much sense.. off to bed now.

I certainly don't feel empowered by porn, but I can appreciate the minority who do. It's a strange and difficult argument, porn is something inextricably linked to masculinity, but there are women trying to claim it back for themselves as they believe this is testament to their sexual liberation... Can something made primarily for men ever benefit women? Where does this leave lesbians?

Empowerment/confidence, without getting lost in etymology the message remains the same.. YP need to understand their sexuality better, and certainly not as a means to an end but as a mean in itself (O Kant, where are you now!)
Right, definitely time for bed
:) x

Original poster
Caligula · 15/04/2006 22:19

Grin Pruni did she pull?

OP posts:
Pruni · 15/04/2006 22:20

Exactly MT.

Original poster
Caligula · 15/04/2006 22:22

Wot wot? I'm missing something. What's all part of the same deception?

OP posts:
Pruni · 15/04/2006 22:23

She did Grin but I would say despite the unwashedness...