Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

Edith. what page and I'll have a look

Agreed Chedder, I've been looking at the Rape Crisis website and there is nothing on there on how to avoid rape - strange that

I've posted a few times on this thread, but the one that might be the most helpful if you would comment on is at Tue 03-Jul-12 23:37:22.

I'm not twisting anything cheddar. Why are you assuming that because some people are discussing stranger rape in particular that they are completely disregarding all other types of rape or suggesting that certain behaviour means that you'll never be raped when no one has actually said that?

Just to clarify, no one has said that rapists are specifically targeting drunk women in stilettos or that only drunk women in stilettos ever get raped.

Quite right cheddar

If you have been raped or assaulted or someone has attempted to rape you you don't go around telling other people that if they don't want it to happen to them then don't get too drunk/ walk home alone/ wear short skirts and high heels because that wouldn't have made the blindest bit of difference. It's the being with the rapist that makes the difference.

Perhaps if you have high self esteem, excellent boundaries, a non dysfunctional upbringing and are surrounded by warm hearted similar people then you can avoid being raped by someone you know. Maybe. But that's a lifetime's work for dc and for parents, not a 'don't go out looking like that' quick fix answer.

Cheddar, I posted my feeling after I read the first few posts. It doesn't really matter if it is the opposite of what someone else has said. I posted my thoughts.

The facts show that the majority of rape is carried out by someone you know. There needs to be a lot of education of men to know that if you have sex without consent, then you are raping them - and it does not matter if they were drunk, did not resist or did not say no. If they did not consent, that is rape and I think many men (and teenage boys) need to know that.

Can you prevent or reduce the chances of such a rape happening? Should there be any onus on you - or should the onus be on the man? Getting drunk with a bunch of friends at a party so you lose control? Of course you are allowed to get drunk - and you should not be blamed if something happens. But you are going to blame yourself for putting yourself in that situation.

There is no way you can prevent stranger rape if the rapist is intent on raping you. Can you take steps to reduce this happening? Avoid unlit streets, walking home alone, walking home drunk. Makes you an easier target - but of course you can get raped by a stranger at anytime of day or night.

Rapists exist. They are out there. Strangers and people who you know. They are to blame. No one else. But how would you advise your daughter to reduce her chances of an assault without curtailing her freedom? How would you advise your son on how not to be a rapist?

And I am glad this is being discussed because it is such a controversial topic. Anytime anyone suggests don't walk alone down an alley or a park at night drunk, the cry of rape myth and victim blaming comes up.

It is not victim blaming. The victim may blame themselves. But we all know it is the rapist, and rapist alone, who is to blame. In exactly the same way any criminal is to blame for their actions. The problem is is that rape myths are used as part of a defence. I can never get that gang rape scene from the Accused out of my mind. I have never though seen a film story where the rape is between people who know each other and the rapist gets taken to court and is found guilty. I don't watch the soaps but I think that story would get the debate moving.

What am I twisting?

"What people are trying to say is that oppourtunistic rapists are not specifically targeting drunk women in stiletto's."

Who has argued that they are?

"You are not more at risk of rape at night, drunk or wearing stiletto's."

Who has said that you are?

"The only reason you haven't been raped is because you haven't met a rapist"

Who has said otherwise? Surely it's kind of obvious that you won't be at risk of being raped unless there is a rapist around. Why do people keep feeling the need to post this? Isn't it kind of a given?

I'm not trying to have a go at you here cheddar but you're accusing me of twisting things yet you seem to be arguing against points that haven't even been made.

Cheddar, I am quite pissed off with your post. You have responded as I have said things I haven't and I certainly do not need educating about what a rapist is.

Justfabulous, and I posted my thoughts.

"I am telling both my sons and my daughter that they need to take care of themselves. The boys, statistically, are far more likel to be victims of assault. I'm of the Yorkshire Ripper generation. Hell, we all knew there was one murderer out there, and that the murders were all down to him, but there a was no way we wanted to put ourselves at risk.

From the earliest days when you have to tell the about "stranger" danger, they learn that there are criminals out there who might seek to rob or hurt them. So I talk to all of them about situation awareness, the need to avoid becoming so drunk you are an easy target, not leaving drinks unattended, not flashing jewellery or covetable gadgets, changing shoes on the way home to ones you can run in (similarly, can you run in whatever you are wearing), plan how you'll be getting home, keep an emergency tenner away from your drinking money, carry your door keys in your hand, pay attention to who is around you, stick to well frequented areas, don't go off with strangers no matter how shaggable (or at least make sure someone else knows what you're doing), look out for your mates. Ad they've all done martial arts.

None is a guarantee. But they are all elements of risk management that I think are important to pass on."

Fine, so your son can hide his gadgets, how does your daughter hide the fact that she is female?
Whats the point in having shoes you can run in, if you've been pinned down or so scared to move?
Money to get home, what if the taxi driver is a rapist?
Carrying keys? Great if a rapist attacks you at your front door
Leaving drinks unattened, what if the rapist is buying then spiking the drinks to get you drunk?
Sticking to well frequented areas, what if people walking past think its 2 people having a shag in the bushes and not a rape in progress?
Don't go off with strangers? What happens if it someone known that turns out to be a rapist
Martial arts? Who can say how they would react, sometimes not putting up a fight can be safer

No, you didn't. You implied I said something I didn't.

As patiently explained by many posters, telling your daughter not to wear short skirts will make (if at all) only a negligible difference even to the chances of stranger rape, because stranger rape takes place on women in jeans, old ladies wearing twinsets and pearls, children in school uniform.

But here's why you shouldn't tell her - not simply because it won't make a difference, but because one day she might be unlucky enough to be raped, and you want her to know she can come to you without the slightest chance you might turn round and say "well, I told you not to dress like that". Or one day she might be on a jury, and you don't want some rapist getting off because you've conditioned your daughter to think women in short skirts are asking for it.

What you should tell her is that consensual, mutually pleasurable sex is ok, and that's the only sort of sex that's ok. So she knows that if a man tries to coerce her, or she wakes up to find him having sex with him, or he holds her down when she's pissed, that's wrong - every bit as wrong as if he'd jumped her in a dark alley. Because that's the likeliest scenario you have to worry about, and if you look at the relationships pages here, you'll find that there are actually lots of women there who have never been told that, who actually have to ask "was it rape", who don't have the confidence to leave abusive relationships because nobody told them they were worth more. Tell her loud and proud she has a right to enjoy consensual sex, she can say no if she doesn't want it, and any sex that she doesn't enthusiastically consent to is wrong. This will do her more good as a life message than messing with her head about what she wears and instilling some sort of weird mindset that clothes make you a slut who deserves to get raped.

Did Edith say it was fail safe? Are you saying there is no point in learning to protect yourself at all because in the event of a surprise attack it may not make a difference?

I know I am, Cheddar.

See I've been drunk at a party and not been raped.

I've got into bed with a man and not been raped.

I've done stuff with blokes, then said no, and not been raped.

I've been drunk, in heels, walking round the city centre at night on my own and not been raped.

I've got in taxis on my own and not been raped.

Walked down dark alleys and not been raped.

Doesn't mean I haven't been raped, just means I wasn't doing a rape myth at the time.

I don't know what advice you can give people to stop them getting raped. Theres no formula. It's frightening and rightly so.

If you do have the answer I'm all ears.

"instilling some sort of weird mindset that clothes make you a slut who deserves to get raped."

Who has suggested this?!

Seriously, what on earth are some of you arguing against here?

Blackout, are you saying there's no point in doing any of the suggestions because in some situations they may not help? Some people focus on the fact that in some situations they will.

'Don't take unnecessary risks just to make a point, to make a stand.''

What like being a woman? Because that is the only thing that puts me at risk