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Original poster

Drove past my dd walking alongside major road yesterday when she was supposed to be at nursery!

144 replies

SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 09/02/2006 12:27

dropped her off at 12.30 an went out to try and sort car out(bumped it earlier in day)..driving back up main road to where i live (nothing around it, just a road/Bridge that go's over the river)and i drove past my daughter with another 8 children and 2 carers from her nursery

my point?..firstly she's full of cold and id requested she not play out in playground today, then, there were 9-10 children all under age of 4 with two adults??i am told that they can take 8 each if they want??!!but how to they keep that many children safe walking along a main road?..it only takes one child to bolt and the others are left with one adult with one pair of hands!
Lastly, when i filled in nursery contracts and it came to the bit about 'outings'..i clearly specified that any outing must be first authorised by myself on each and every occasion.

MY GOD..i am so annoyed, upset and shocked by this..am i totally out of order for feeling like this? is this the norm with most places??

OP posts:
Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 10/02/2006 11:46

thanks

only speaking to someone today cos she's a friend of a nieghbour and shes pooping in during her slpit shift other wise nursery have not even acknowledged my problem!

am totally torn as dd loves it and took ages to settle, but my instinct(plus other things ive heard recently) are making me lose trust in themand i cant keep her there if i dont trust them can i

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lalaa · 10/02/2006 11:51

i hear what you are saying about the ratios and the fact that you had specifically asked to be informed about outings - I would want clarification from the nursery on that too.

However, with apologies for going on about the cold thing, I just wanted to say that I'm going through chemo at the moment and as a result of my dd picking up two colds and a D&V virus at nursery, I have been really really ill. My nursery have been brilliant, and have sent out a note specifically saying that one of the mum's is going through chemo and therefore has virtually no immunity to viruses and bugs and can people please keep their children home if they are ill, but it obviously hasn't stopped some mums. I know that sometimes these things can't be helped - sometimes you might not yet know if your child has a D&V bug and you only realise when they throw up all over you, by which time, it's already spread around, but I do think it's everyone's responsibility to not spread germs around if they can possibly help it.

misdee · 10/02/2006 11:54

lalaa, totally with you on that. peters immune system is also compromised, and each time the kids get even a hint of a snotty nose it keeps us away from him for days.

Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 10/02/2006 13:03

i am sorry to hear that you are having such a bad time Lalaa

But my daughters nursery have always told me to bring her in if its(or i think it's) just a cold and i expect unfortunatly that possible one child there will have a cold or something like that each time dd go's as there are lots of children.

i didnt send dd with no regard for her and the other children, i did so on the authority of the nursery themselves.

i have also just heard from a friend that another mum has collected her child today and when pasing my friend said she was to agry to talk and went back in to speak to the manager?..seems mine is not the only problem and worries me further!

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Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 10/02/2006 13:04

missdee is it not possible for you to get help to provide a nanny or something similar because of peters condition, i can see a nursery environment will not help his health an would hope you could get some support if this continues to be a problem?

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blueshoes · 10/02/2006 13:18

Swimming, I would be quite worried about the 10 to 2 staff ratio on a busy road with children under 4. Dd's nursery uses reins. Also would not be happy about the nursery disregarding your instructions about your dd not going out into the playground because of her cold.

But ... I do think that walk for fresh air is not an "outing". My dd's nursery gets my consent for trips to the London Zoo whereby the children get onto a bus. In that situation, they do provide cover in the nursery for parents who do not want their children to go. They (rightly) do not get my consent for a walk to the shops, park, train station, even if it is along a busy road. I know and accept this because when I pick dd up, the staff tell me about her day, including any outside jaunts for which they clearly did not check with me in advance. I think the nursery staff should be applauded for taking the trouble to arrange outside walks - can you imagine the palaver of going out with 10 kids? But they do need to look at safety more carefully. And I am slightly different about going out if my dd has a cold but is otherwise not unwell enough for nursery. If I drop her off at nursery, then the staff have a right to expect her to be well enough for all activities, without making special exceptions for her. If I wanted special treatment, I would be paying for a nanny. That's JMO

FairyMum · 10/02/2006 13:21

It sounds very unsafe. I would be unhappy like you.

Re: snotty noses. Of course you send your child to nursery with a snotty nose. If you didn't,there would hardly be a weak during the winter months when children could attend nursery.

IlanaK · 10/02/2006 13:22

If I am reading this correctly, none of the children were over the age of 3? If this is right, they were breaking their registration by having 9 children with 2 adults (regardless of where they were). I would report them at once. If on the otherhand, some of the children were over three, they may have mixed their ratios.

Personally, I am stunned that they had any child under the age of three walking without a restraint of some kind (pram, reins, etc) on a busy road. Under 2's at my nursery are not allowed out of the grounds if they are not in a pushchair (they walk within the extensive grounds without restraint, but it is traffic free). 2-3's must be on reins. 3-5's must be on wrist straps.

I understand your dilema that your child has settled well, but if it was me, I would pull her out.

Socci · 10/02/2006 13:53

Message withdrawn

blueshoes · 10/02/2006 13:56

It is possible some of us do genuinely hold different opinions ?

Socci · 10/02/2006 14:00

Message withdrawn

Enid · 10/02/2006 14:04

good point blueteddy

actually I agreed that swimming was right to be concerned that the nursery had ignored her requests (even though I may not agree with her requests).

Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 10/02/2006 14:11

i am getting more annoyed now from the nicer posts that have told me the ratio and lack of child restraint was wrong and against childcare procedures.
i think i might have to speak to manager instead of waiting for her to cll me back, gonna try and find out what other mum was complaining about today too?

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Enid · 10/02/2006 14:11

swimming it does sound like perhaps you should consider another nursery. Can you not just go in and talk to someone?

edam · 10/02/2006 14:12

Custy, I agree with you. Carer to child ratios are wrong and below Ofsted requirements - not slightly but completely. Busy main road with so few carers frankly dangerous and even more wrong. And their breach of their agreement with you is wrong, although maybe needs clarifying (in which case they should have been clearer about what constitutes an outing). And you have every right to vent here.

Also, don't know why people are giving you such a hard time about sending her with a cold - no-one at ds's old nursery was ever kept off for an ordinary cold, otherwise small children would hardly ever be there, FGS.

I'd be very angry about the danger they were putting your dd and her room-mates in. Appalling. I hope they recognise this and make sure they don't leave the nursery without proper supervision in future - and stick to it. If you don't get a proper response, taking it very seriously, I'd complain to Ofsted.

Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 10/02/2006 14:13

cant get there at min as dd is now actually poorly and throwing, so a trip followed by me shouting wont be fair on her.
however, i am sad to say that i will have to reconsider my taking her there..especially as they havent botherd to come back to me even with some down right excuse

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IlanaK · 10/02/2006 14:15

Swimming, just to clarify before you speak to them. There is no legal obligation to do anything on outings different to the ratios within the nursery. So, for under 3's, the ratio could be the same as when at the nursery (1:4). However, they are legally obliged to ensure that the children are safe on outings. Therefore, if they plan to have 8 children to 2 adults on the outing, they would need to have done a risk assessment that shows they would be safe. There is also no legal obligation to have the children on reins.

So the two questions that need to be asked are: what were the ages of the children ont he outing (to see if they were breaking their ratios). And how could they ensure those children were safe on a busy road with no restraints and too many hands to hold.

IlanaK · 10/02/2006 14:18

Not that I want to get into the whole cold issue, but just to say what the guidlines are from the communicable disease control centre that advises councils about schools and nurseries. Basically, a child with a cold should not be kept off school or nursery if CLINICALLY WELL. BAsically, this means that if they feel well enough to be there, they should be. No guidlines I have ever seen suggest keeping a child with a cold off nursery. We don't expect the parent's at our nursery to keep them off with colds. However, we ensure our hygiene procedures are spot on and everything is disinfected regularly to prevent spread as much as possible.

Enid · 10/02/2006 14:18

edam I think many posters have pointed out very articulately why the cold thing was an issue.

edam · 10/02/2006 14:24

If there are parents or children with compromised immune systems so colds were a particular issue, nursery should inform other parents. Otherwise it's a cold, a common minor infection AND custy says nursery specifically encouraged her to take her dd when she has a cold.

Enid · 10/02/2006 14:27

hmmm i think the problem was that swimming needed her child to have special care during the cold - ok fine her nursery doesnt mind doing this apparently but most other nurseries certainly would mind and it would bugger up ratios. Thats probably why people find it quite a surprise.

how many times have I said that on this thread?

Socci · 10/02/2006 14:30

Message withdrawn

Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 10/02/2006 14:31

well then you're starting to feel like me having to repeat myself every 2 minutes!

i have just spoken to the ass manager of nursery, she has not even read the email, nor did she take kindly to my concern(must have been to the same school as many people on here), so i am going in to speak to her on monday and that will be the make it or break it situation

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paolosgirl · 10/02/2006 14:33

Crikey, is this still going on?!

Enid · 10/02/2006 14:33

in your opinion yes socci, that has become the main point and certainly seems to be swimming's now. But the original post made the point that 'firstly she's full of cold and id requested she not play out in playground today', so I guess some people responded to that.