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Original poster

Drove past my dd walking alongside major road yesterday when she was supposed to be at nursery!

144 replies

SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 09/02/2006 12:27

dropped her off at 12.30 an went out to try and sort car out(bumped it earlier in day)..driving back up main road to where i live (nothing around it, just a road/Bridge that go's over the river)and i drove past my daughter with another 8 children and 2 carers from her nursery

my point?..firstly she's full of cold and id requested she not play out in playground today, then, there were 9-10 children all under age of 4 with two adults??i am told that they can take 8 each if they want??!!but how to they keep that many children safe walking along a main road?..it only takes one child to bolt and the others are left with one adult with one pair of hands!
Lastly, when i filled in nursery contracts and it came to the bit about 'outings'..i clearly specified that any outing must be first authorised by myself on each and every occasion.

MY GOD..i am so annoyed, upset and shocked by this..am i totally out of order for feeling like this? is this the norm with most places??

OP posts:
Bozza · 09/02/2006 13:42

Agree with Enid's last point. If I was one of the other mothers I would have been quite miffed because also cooped indoors with your DD there would be increased chance of mine catching it. I don't think if you are using a nursery for childcare you can specify no outdoor play TBH because of the logistics with relating to numbers. It would mean two other children had to stay in and that's not fair. However I think the nursery have not been honest with you about what is going on which is bad.

Bozza · 09/02/2006 13:43

Sorry bit slow there - meant Enid's post of 12.39!

Bucksmum · 09/02/2006 13:50

I agree the nursery should follow your wishes and you specifically asked them to keep her inside so they shoud have done so and if not should have explained to you why she had to go out and then it would have been your decision whether you took her home again. Whether it is classed as an outing is irrelevant you made a request as your dd was a bit under the weather and they ignored it. DO they write down instructions given to them when you drop them off or could it have been a bit of miscommunication bewteen staff

Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 09/02/2006 13:52

bozza - there was the option for her to saty in as there was only a group who went out and a group who satyed in - both i am told were well under limits so she could have been one staying in?

at at the moment, with this bug going round, she is one of many with a cold..they would close if they didnt allow childen with sniffles.

OP posts:
Bozza · 09/02/2006 14:07

Oh yes I would send my DD with a cold definitely but would not specify for her to stay inside. They would have one very cross little girl on their hands if I did. I was a bit rubbish posting there though so you had already addressed a lot of the points.

Rhubarb · 09/02/2006 14:14

This is what I would have done.

  1. I wouldn't have sent her with a cold. You say she went on to develop a chest infection? Then it must have been a very bad cold! If you send kiddies in with stuff like that they pass it onto all the other kiddies which is unfair.

  2. Not fair to stress that she does not go outside. So when all the other kids are out playing she has to be stuck inside watching them?

  3. I agree that 2 carers looking after so many children near a main road is not enough. I would ask how many carers are supposed to be in charge when the children are on outings.

  4. If you don't want people disagreeing with you, don't post on Mumsnet!

Angeliz · 09/02/2006 14:15

SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard.
I'd be very angry about this too.
I asked to be informed of all trpis when my dd was at Nursery too and they kept to it. They were going on a small ferry oneday, ratio 4 kids to 1 adult, so i kept her off that day. (She's been on the ferry many times anyway with me).
I always thought the satff ratio of 1 to 4 was too few, as you say, we only have 2 hands to their 8 but i suppose it depends where they are going.

If i were you i would have a word and say how upset you are about it. Be a bit self depricating(sp?) if neccassary, 'sorry, i know i'm a bit of a worrier' type thing, but get your point across

Anyway,

zippitippitoes · 09/02/2006 14:16

I'm glad it's not what I understood from the thread title

ie that she was walking on her own

I tend to think that once you feel uncomfortable about child care if you don't feel communication is good then you have to consider changing arrangements as it is so important for youand chidlren to be happy with the level of care

Polgara2 · 09/02/2006 14:17

Swimming... etc. I'm with you on this (swimming against the tide it seems ) anything that is outside the gates is something I would have wanted to know about. They always know in advance, its too much hassle to adhoc these things, so they should have told you when you dropped her off AND the ratio of adults to children was not good enough.

IlanaK · 09/02/2006 14:22

I haven't read through all of this, but I will say one thing. If you had expressly said that your permission was needed before taking her out, then it is irrelevant whether or not she was well enough to be there. They have gone totally against you wishes (and written wishes at that). It is enough to ladge a complaint against them.

It also sounds like they are breaking their ratios for the trip.

Whether or not you should have sent her to nursery in the first place is not really the point is it?

(I am a nursrey owner, as well as a mum, by the way)

hockeymum · 09/02/2006 14:33

swimming - I can't believe how much people are laying into you about this! You have my sympathy.

It is totally acceptable to ask your child not play outside if she has a cold.

It is totally acceptable to ask to be informed of outings from the nursery and to know where your child is.

You say you have already raised these issues with the nursery - what was their response? Perhaps you need to sit down with them and clarify the agreements regarding visits and outside play.

Well done for not letting the flamers get you down!

vicimelly · 09/02/2006 14:35

When my dd was in nursery it was specified to me that they often take a few of the kids on little 'outings' library, walks, park etc etc and I was asked to sign whether this was ok for my dd or if I wanted to be informed of each outing in advance.
I signed to say this was ok, but only because I was assured every time it happened tehre would be no more than three or four kids with one person.
I would class going out of the grounds as an outing, because it's not where you expect your child to normally be ifkwim.
Also agree about the cold, I would have sent dd in with a cold, wouldn't have asked for her to be kept in, but had I done that I'd expect for them to agree or tell me it wasn't possible and leave it up to me whether I still wanted to leave dd.
In these circumstances I would be very annoyed..I don't think the issue is whether she should have kept her child at home, if the nursery had no intention or provisions for keeping her in as requested that should have been made clear but wasn't.
I'd would formally complain about this if it were me.

Angeliz · 09/02/2006 14:39

I sent my dd1 in the other day with a cough and told them i didn't want her to go swimming that day, (there are 2 reception rooms so it's o.k for them to stay in the other room)
I don't think it's all or nothing either. I wouldn't send dd in ill, but if we kept them all off everytime they have a cold, they'd be off aloT!!

bosscat · 09/02/2006 14:45

actually I always thought a bit of fresh air did them good when they had a cold but my FIL told me at the weekend (he's a doctor) that if they have a cough the cold air does something to the chest particles or something and makes recovery longer. There was a big medical explanation but please don't ask me for it because I switched off in my head.

bosscat · 09/02/2006 14:55

My nursery would laugh their heads off if I said I was keeping ds1 at home because he had a cold. There are things we aren't supposed to bring them in with like conjunctivitis or d & v for 24 hours but not a cold. Bloody hell, would you stay off work Enid for a cold in case you spread it? My employer would not be amused if I said I couldn't come in because I had to look after ds1 and his cold. They'd think I'd lost my mind!

Original poster
SwimmingUpHillThroughCustard · 09/02/2006 15:58

thankyou for the last few posts - it seems i am not mad after all!

OP posts:
doggiesayswoof · 09/02/2006 16:18

Have to add my tuppence worth here - hockeymum, there has been no flaming on this thread, just a bit of disagreement. Look it up! No one has been rude.
Swimming, I am partly with you - of course it's ok to send your dd to nursery with a cold, my god I would never go to work if I kept dd off with a sniffle. However maybe you have to give nursery staff their place - they have training and experience, and maybe thought she seemed well enough to go out later in the day - cold symptoms do tend to have peaks and troughs.
On the other hand, it sounds like their ratios were well off. You need even more staff if you are going outside even just for a walk. I would find out what the ratios should be (they are a legal obligation) and get an appointment with the manager/owner to ask some searching questions!

doggiesayswoof · 09/02/2006 16:23

Also - don't think she must have had a "really bad cold" to develop into a chest infection as Rhubarb said. Sometimes these things just go that way overnight. But I don't think she would have "caught" a chest infection just from being outside either.

BudaBabe · 09/02/2006 16:24

The ratio of adults to child seems all wrong definitely.

Re the cold - we had issues here a couple of weeks ago when it was really cold and some mothers wanted the children kept inside and as class rep I spoke to the teacher concerned. Schools POV is that if they don't go outside they def get sick as the fresh air helps kill off bugs. I happened to be at docs that day and asked and was told that was correct and also being in the fresh air helps boost the immune system. Just for future reference!

Blandmum · 09/02/2006 16:35

Chest infections which are baterial (and treated with anti biotics) are caused by bacteria. Viral infections are caused by viruses. Neither are caused by being out in fresh air. You don't get a cold by being cold, you get it friom a virus. A further chest infection would be caused by a bacteria and would take a couple of days to 'kick in' in my experience.

Being inside with a load of other kids would be the biggest risk factor in getting either.

If your dd was too ill to be outside, she was probably too ill to be in school.

The ratio is another matter

Enid · 09/02/2006 16:49

oh bosscat don't be ridiculous

I said if swimmings dd was so ill that she had to avoid going out yes she should stay at home.

To me that is so absurd that I presumed she had more than a cold. Yes of course I'd go to work with a cold, and I'd send both mine to nursery and school with a mild cold. If I ever felt the need to ask the nursery staff or teachers to keep my child in I would seriously question whether they should be there in the first place.

Tbh if swimmings dd developed a chest infection it was obviously more than a 'sniffle'.

Do we live in the dark ages? Are there people of my generation who seriously think keeping their child in and away from fresh air helps a cold?

Blu · 09/02/2006 16:50

SUTC: I sympathise with you on the fact that you had specified that you were to be consulted about trips, and also the ratio thing, if it was not as it should have been, and if you don't want this to happen again, speak to the nursery about it.

However, I think that if your child is even slightly ill enough that you think she should be kept inside, then she should have been at home. especially for the sake of OTHER people who want to go away next week with children uninfected by your dd!

Filyjonk · 09/02/2006 17:02

I think some of your requests may have been unreasonable and personally would not send a child "full of cold" to the nursery-both either her or the other kids or the staff's sakes, but-
If the nursery could not keep her in they should have told you upfront. If they have little outings and you have said you want to be informed if she leaves the premises, then they should have told you.

Don't think it matters if your requests are reasonable or unreasonable. They have agreed to certain things-keeping her in, telling you about leaving the nursery-and they should honour that.

Pretty sure the kindergarten ds will go to has a 1:8 ratio at this age too. But it sounds a lot. What if 2 kids run off?

icklmum · 09/02/2006 17:13

Swimming i totally understand where youre coming from too.
i dont think people are meaning to be rude here i think everyone is just getting thier wires crossed about what has actually upset you.

When i leave my child in the care of people i do not know in a personal way (ie nursery staff) i expect them to follow through any wishes i have whether they think its the best for the child or not......after all im the mother not them. so yes i can see that the lack of comunication has concerned you.

The big issue is the ratio and the fact that they were walking along a main road that has no safe or proper pavement which i personally would have gone ballistic about. Not responsable behaviour for nursery staff!

spacecadet · 09/02/2006 17:15

when i was chair of the pre-school, parents were given a form to fill in giving permission for outings, walks etc, however, a notice usually went up informing parents of impending walks etc, usually because we had to request parent helpers to come as the adult to child ratio was one adult to every 2 children.
once they are school age the ratio changes and you can have more children per adult.
i think if she wasnt well enough to go outside then she prob should have stayed at home, but they were not keeping to the adult/child ratios and goodness knows what would have happened had one child run off.