When people say 'No-one can make you feel bad...'

[Pruni]

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We do, Pruni. I don't see this idea as exempting anyone from bad behaviour! But we're each responsible for our own behaviour. What are you meant to do about another adult behaving badly?

I think this idea can maybe get people out of a cycle of horribleness and blame. People often lash out, verbally, when they feel attacked, so end up stuck in a loop. People also try to change each others' behaviours, which is pretty much impossible.

that's it nqc....it is the only way to break out of a cycle

that's it nqc....it is the only way to break out of a cycle

I agree with sophable and the rest - ultimately, you are responsible for your own feelings. being told this at the wrong moment is however monumentally unhelpful for a lot of people. now i come to think of it, a counsellor said it to me once (actually she said "you are choosing to take on those emotions" and it really wound me up).

But none of that means that people who deliberately do hurtful things are off the hook.

oh franny and I were just talking about this the other day so I was thinking about it

I would agree that as a matter of principle only you are responsible for your own feelings. blaming other people for how you feel has always seemed to me to be a complete cop out. also, it suggest that you think that the world revolves around you - that other people should edit their comments to make sure they don't offend you seems to be an indefensible attitude.
I think that this is especially the case on mumsnet (etc) because I can guarantee that the poster was NOT thinking about your feelings at all but about themselves.
also, taking responsibility for your own feelings seems to me the only way to ensure your own mental health. because if you do spend your life being offended/hurt/whatever by what other people say you will waste a lot of energy and pain. and you cannot control what otehr people say and do (nor should you try) and so you must control the only thing you can control, which is the way you react. and concentrate on building up your own self esteem to deal with the reactions of others.
all that being said, there is no excuse of course for people who deliberately set out to hurt another person's feelings - though who among us can say we have never done this for whatever reason, but again I think it is each indiviudal's responsibility to say that this behaviour is unaccaptable, to ask the other person to stop - and if they don't, then remove that person from your life.

"that other people should edit their comments to make sure they don't offend you seems to be an indefensible attitude"

Oh I am glad you're here hc as I still really don't get this. I am finding it hard to contribute properly to this debate as it seems like it is just being really immature to disagree, but I think I must be talking at cross purposes to some of you. How can it not be right to try to avoid offending people?

Agree with Harpsi - I'm guilty of saying "people can't make you feel bad" on MN - usually on bfeeding threads, admittedly.

But that's because it bores the arse off me to hear "OMG, you breastfeeding women, you make women who've had to formula feed feel soooooooooo bad simply by existing, you utter bastards. And as for trying to help other women breastfeed, just where do you get off?". See?

Yes, I see that, hunker, but not the rest.

Keep going, in nice short sentences if possible...

I am undecided on this as I think I am more affected by who is saying the barbed comment that what is being said iyswim. If an acquaintance told me I was pathetic and ignorant I would think "you don't even know me" but if someone I cared for did I would be really upset and affected by the comment. Am I missing the point?

I basically agree with that expression and I've probably used it, not to be a git to someone, but because I believe it to be true.

Let's take another situation: a man beating up a woman, "because you've made me so angry". Would anyone really argue that it's not up to him to take responsibility for his anger? Or a parent lashing out at a child, for that matter.

I do think fully mature compos mentis adults are responsible not necessarily for their feelings, but definitely for what they do about those feelings.

well I am not saying that we should all feel free to be gits to each other and use this line as a get out of jail free card
but I genuinely think that it is practically impossible to imagine what another person might find offensive, or hurtful, all of the time
when I have inadevrtently been offensive to someone else and they have told me what they found offensive, then countless times I have been completely boggled by it
OTOH, when I have been hurt by other people, I would say 99% of the time they have not meant to be offensive in the least
I think we expect too much from other's powers of empathy
I suppose I am assuming a level of goodwill, most of the time. even from strangers, most offensive comments are just social awkwardness gone awry
ime....

FAZ, I agree that, to some extent, trying not to offend people is wise.

But that's a lot easier in person. On here, there are so many people, with so many different opinions, it's almost impossible to avoid offending someone.

A simple example: I had two sections. I really didn't want sections. Reading or hearing happy birth stories really really upsets me. So I don't read birth stories. It's not fair at me to get annoyed at people for posting them.

I do think that if you are in a shit place mentally (for whatever reason) then you are the only person who can change that. Sure people around you can help you out (have the kids for a bit etc etc), but the only person who can make the decision to change is you. And people do have choices, some people have more choices than others, but eveyone has some sort of choice.

that's right NQC you can please some of the people etcetc
I can look after my own emotional well being
I don't really feel I can be responsible for anyone else's - that seems an impossible burden and doomed to failure

Ok...so before I read that, NQC, I couldn't have known how you felt, right? Nor be expected to guess, I think. However, now I do know, it would be sh*tty of me to start telling you what a marvellous, natural birth I had ( don't worry, I didn't). I accept some responsibility for not upsetting you by my words or actions.

Sure, FAZ. But it's not reasonable of me to expect other people to remember that. Very few people have ranted at me about their lovely natural births (and the one bloke who did, is a very old friend, and just obtuse. Luckily he did it over the phone, so couldn't see my face.). But on here, people talk about all these things, and they should. The more people know that a natural birth can be fine, the better!

I feel I am missing the point but I believe we all have a responsibility to try to avoid hurting people.

Except when it's somebody's evil MIL, of course.

Oh btw I never did get my degree (in moral philosophy) and probably should get off this thread and stop trying to play with the big boys

Yes NQC on here I agree you can't avoid upsetting people with the most bizarre things which couldn't be expected. However I do think it is reasonable to expect your close friends to remember that you personally will feel upset by birth stories.

there's a word for that, or a phrase - "wrong audience"- I mutter it to myself when peoplesay insensitive things when they should know better.

I agree- I don't get annoyed when man in the street says something insensitive (after all how would they know) , but I can be livid when it's someone who should know better

you aren't responsible for your gut feelings, you are responsible for what you do with them - i.e. whether you let them spiral into further negative thoughts, or put them in their proper perspective. Of course this can be very difficult to do, particularly if the negativity emanates from someone in a position of trust (parents/partner etc). There is unfortunately no guarantee that people won't misunderstand/criticise you/bully you - so unless you take some control over how you deal with it, you leave yourself in a very vulnerable position.

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I had a boyfriend who chucked me and said 'you choose to feel bad' when I cried.

I hope you replied "You chose to make me kill you" as you pulled the trigger, mi?