Rant about HV, DH and PND

[pie]

wasn't sure which topic to put this in...feeling hysterically weepy. Got about 2 minutes until the babe wants feeding again.

DH took DD2 to baby clinic today (I'm still too immobile to get that far though did manage 100 yards with no crutches ). He gets back and tells me that the baby hasn't gained any weight since Thursday, this is on different scales mind you, and that HV has told him that if she hasn't gained by next week then she MUST be topped up with formula. Also that she should be drinking water as she is still a tiny, and I mean tiny, bit jaundice. I have read that bottles of water (and this is what she is talking about) are not so good for bf babies as it can mess with the sodium levels, but its fine for ff babies. And we should give her a dummy. She was rooting whilst I wasn't there, but no, not because she might have been hungry but because she needs a dummy.

Anyway DH comes home completely agrees with HV...I said that those growth charts are based on ff babies not bf...that shes not dehydrated, shes awake and becoming more alert every day and it was a different set of bloody scales. So DH gives me the 'fine I won't have anything to do with bringing up this baby' line and goes off in a huff, shouting at me that 'babies all over the world have formula and are fine'. I replied yes, but there is nothing wrong with DD2 so I don't want to give her formula, and that there is a really big history of allergies in my family. We aren't talking.

Dh has, since the day baby was born, been pressuring me to express milk so that he can feed her. Of course I don't have a problem with this, but I said I wanted to wait until bf was established and the earliest was about 6 weeks. DD2 is a lazy sucker! You really have to wake her up and take off nappies etc to get her to feed so I just feel that introducing a bottle now would only discourage her from the harder work of bf.

DH pressured me all the way through my pregnancy to have a c/s because of the SPD. How do you deal with a partner who believes in totally different things (none of which I knew before I got pregnant as it had never come up)

I don't know if his hostility to everything I do is why I feel so angry and weepy the past few days, why I want things to go back to how they were before I ever got pregnant. Don't get me wrong I love DD2, I wanted another baby, but its been nothing but heartbreak for months. I just want to run away. But given my history of depression I was wondering if I was feeling the first signs of PND rather than a natural reaction to everything.

I'm going to go to baby clinic next week, so HV can fight with me...but I'm worried as a condition of joining my GP's surgery is that I tick the box that agrees to 'Child surveillance' what does that mean??? That I have to see HV? Going to buy my own bloody scales.

Sorry for rant

Sorry, tried to post this once but did not work, so hope it doesn't duplicate.

Just want to offer my support. DH is probably getting used to being a dad, hopefully he will settle down soon. I hope you feel better and happier soon and that baby continues to grow and thrive. Remember mum knows best, never mind all the conflicting advice. Lots of love.

Oh Pie. Poor Pie. I am sorry. IMO the first few weeks of a new baby are so vile that whether or not it's 'real' PND it certainly feels like it (speaking as someone who's just come out the other end of the first 3 months again). Sodding centile charts. Sodding HVs. (Did you know mine are telling me my dd2 is losing weight and 'we' need to feed her up?) Hang on in there. Lots of love. xxxxxx

don't worry about child surveillance- I had to tick that as well- I think its national. I have no idea what it means but it can't be too draconian because I haven't ever been in trouble with the GP- even when refusing to vaccinate ds2- he hasn'treported me to anyone. I think its just new labour nonsense.

Centile charts are crazy- if you are happy with her then ignore stupid HV- half the time they can't even plot the line correctly anyway.

jimjams...that child surveillance thing does sound likes somesort of 1984 nightmare.

Thanks everyone though, getting this out (and its been brewing for months!) helped me to see it from DH's point of view...hopefully we can meet somewhere in the middle.

Any one know where I can get my own scales then??

MI: Dh says that's the way the HV worded it too...'we' as if shes doing some sort of work! I will go and hit her with my crutches

Pie - please don't buy scales - weight alone is a poor indicator of a baby's health. You will become obsessive like the HV. Since your dd has gained her birthweight she is getting milk. If she has wet and dirty nappies then she is getting milk. To try to get her to go longer that 2 hours between feeds you might want to try feeding her from one breast at a time. By that I mean letting her feed, winding her then putting her back on the same breast. That way she will get more fatty hind milk. Your dh could really help to settle her after a feed by holding her against his chest. He could also do it skin-to-skin to help him feel involved. My dh used to sit like that for literally hours. He may also be able to help space her feeds a bit more by doing that. She might be in that permanent topping up mode and that is a reason for her being a lazy feeder. Your dh could help eek her feed spacing out to 3 hours to give you a rest. Jasper could tell you all about poor weight gain. She just avoided the scales like mad
Tiredness can make problems mount as you know. Encourage your dh to 'nurse' her to allow you to sleep. Perhaps more hands on from him will help. You are absolutely right about water not being needed for jaundice. And you definately do not need formula. Stick in there pie

Thanks mears...I won't buy the scales, it was a fleeting thought and your right I would get obsessed.

I will try all your tips over the next few days, and show them to DH. It would be good to get some time alone with my body again.

I have been trying to latch her on the same side again as I noticed some poos were getting a bit green yesterday, had lots of yellow ones today so would that mean she probably getting more hind milk now?

Its amazing how one baby can feed so differently from the next isn't it? And how you forget everything.

Yellow poos are brilliant Definately getting the milk she needs.

Sorry that you feel blue Pie. I think you are wonderful to have done what you have. You don't see men being jealous of women being pg or giving birth, so quite why they can be jealous of us feeding a baby in a natural way is beyond me. All I can think is that the novelty would wear off and the mother always gets left washing the bottles...

I have a friend whose dh is exactly the same. The midwives in the hospital told him some incredible stuff like babies need formula because colostrum is too heavy for babies tummy. (I would like to see that midwife sacked immediately) Of course being new to this he believed it all, and then I cruise in, lend them a sling, tell her that her midwife obviously knows nothing about bfing and she is doing brilliantly. He gives me the "what do you know you are not a doctor" and so I whip out a boob put my 8 month old ds on it and ask him whether the midwife has children and if she breastfed them. I think he got the point and the baby loved the sling so I am now more popular than the midwife who just scares them. My dh is the other way, because I spent the entire pregnancy telling him that hv were evil. Now he doesn't believe a word they say.

I hope you feel better soon. Burn the chart, if you think that will cheer you up.

Pie ... my poor Pie ... how angry this thread has made me on your behalf ... Grrrrrrr (note to Mumsnet - please make a cross face to go with smileys and sad faces ....)
I too had a useless HV when DS was small ('All babies are sick Mrs Ghosty ... it is called possetting' with a patronising smile, when DS had just done a projectile chunder hitting the wall 4 feet away - 1 week later he needed an op to stop him from starving!!!! ....)
I also had DH and my mother standing over me with a can of SMA when DS was 6 weeks old saying that they were going to make him a bottle ... and they did and DS was no longer breastfeeding a week later
STICK TO YOUR GUNS GIRL! I had PND until DS was 18 months due to much of the above I am sure ... and I have told DH that NEXT TIME IT WILL BE DIFFERENT AND NO ONE WILL MAKE ME STOP B/F!!
I really feel for you and wish I could give you better advice ... but everyone else has said everything that I would have said ...
A pox on all HVs ... or better still what about Willow2's brick? ... or what about the 'tits in the mangle' treatment ?
Your poor DH ... I can see how he would have sat there and believed her, being a professional and all ... but keep talking to him ... and make him trust you .......
Show him this thread ...
Hugs {{{}}}

Oh, and Pie, my dp is equally 'well, listen to the professionals' about HVs etc (AND 'I don't care what you've been told on Mumsnet - where's that grrrrrr emoticon?) when he can't actually be *rsed himself to READ anything about babies.

pie - re: the weight thing. I found I got so stressed about everything with ds that my appetite had completely dropped (especially when you're feeding frequently - you're so tired it's so difficult to find the energy and time to eat properly!)

I know they say how much you eat doesn't bear any relation to how much weight they gain but I did notice a difference after a midwife suggested that every time I sat down to breastfeed I ate a couple of chocolate biscuits and had a glass of water. I also made sure I had a big lunch (even if it was an effortless ready meal).

It might have been a coincidence, but anything's worth a try to get them off your back for a bit, isn't it?

hugs

HV's are a bl**dy nightmare.My Hv with ds told me to leave my partner as we were to young to look after baby(we were 17).She had me in tears.^yrs later dd comes along and new health visitor who seemed quite nice.My dd is now 3 and have recently discovered that my'nice' HV reported me to truancy dept as my son was at home.I had already informed her that my ds and soon my dd are home ed. Have since found out that she does things like riffle through draws when your not in the room.All HV's are evil and I think most are childless.Tell your Hv to get lost your the parent and you trully do know whats best.
As for breast feeding I had interference with both and didn't BF in the end.I regret it and as am not going to have more feel particularly as though I missed out.Don't ff unless there are reasons you feel are right.It's not worth it.

Pie - sorry to hear about your woes. By all accounts your doing FINE and it's a pity your confidence is being undermined at this vulnerable time.

One potentially controversial suggestion: if you are thinking about expressing, it might be worth starting now - but ONLY if you can cope with the extra hassle. You don't need to give to dd2 - but at least you are building up some stocks.

I know I'm being controversial here, and I'm not a qualified b/f counsellor (so am happy to be shot down!) - but the b/f advice I got from the counsellors at my b/f support group was that it is often, if b/f is well established, better to start them on EBM BEFORE 6 weeks, as up until then they don't really distingush between boob and teat. Everyone I know who had difficulties in getting their baby to take a bottle had left it later than 6 weeks before trying.

Even where b/f is NOT well established, it may be worth giving it a go - but each case is probably individual and you should get trained (ie NOT from your HV!) advice. In my own case, ds was "pretending" to suck, do giving him a bottle forced him into "proper" sucking - and he was still given the boob regularly! But at no point was it even suggested that I give him formula or water (and he'd been badly enough jaundiced to need phototherapy).

From the sound of it, you're doing FINE. Your dd has regained her birth weight (my ds took SEVEN weeks!), she's feeding regularly and letting you know when she is hungry. You're doing A GOOD JOB.

Just a thought about the "child surveillance" box - could it be the GP's clumsy way of checking whether you want HV support? .... although in the circumatances, the asnwer might be "no". Why don't you ask them what they mean?

Anyway, lots of hugs from me, and I hope you - and your dh - are feeling better and more confident today.

Pie - I agree with JanZ, although I know it's not the recommended advice I did express from about 5 days, and dh gave dd a bottle of EBM at 10pm every night. No nipple confusion at all (I bf till 11 months) and it meant I could go to sleep from 8pm - 2am. As I was still bf during the day and through the night (which is when I think you have most milk) my supply was completely fine as well.

Pie I agree with JanZ and prufrock.

I think it would do you the world of good if you got just a few hours break.Catch up on some sleep etc.Doesnt have to be everyday just once in a couple of days.

As for HV she talks a load of twaddle.

if you want to freak out the HV insist on her weighing your red book first "to make sure the scales are standardised". Depending on what you think you can then say that hers are up or down on the last ones used, after all your red book hasn't put on or lost weight!

I'm so sorry you're having a pants time and hope it improves soon. The upside surely is that your dh cares enough to row about it.

LOL Eeek!

Pie - I've just re-read your original posting and noticed your concern about dd2 being a lazy sucker. If it's any consolation/reassurance, ds was also an extremely lazy sucker and needed all the discomfits you describe to get him to even think about feeding. In fact, I think that's why the little sod started pretending to suck - so that the hassle would stop! And giving him EBM actually helped but I'm not exactly sure how! .... but anyway, I went on to feed for over a year!

Child surveillance is being called for the 8 week, 9 month, 18 month 3 year checks etc. The doctor gets money for these.

Just to add support to you Pie and Pielet.

Scrap centiles and re-train all HVs. I have a midwife friend who said that none of her "official" training prepared her for motherhood and she learned all her most valuable information from baby magazines. Similarly, my best friend, a speech therapist was also complaining about HVs (and SALTs) saying it's a very divided profession to be in at the moment. You get the dedicated ones who love children and their jobs and read journals/latest research etc. and then you get the (majority) who like someone else said live in the dark ages and rely on their 20 plus year old training and hearsay to dish out "advice" and old wives tales.

Do your reading, be prepared and blind them with science so they know that you're not to be messed with. You're doing brilliantly and I'm sure dh will come round, just keep talking.

I'm in the minority and have an excellent hv - but hands off, you're not having her!

Pie,

How are you feeling at the moment - any better?

Hi handlemecarefully, things are a bit better with DH, he has being trying to handle me with kid gloves, but I'm afraid I can't stop crying, or raise a smile or anything really. I will have to work myself up to seeing my doctor as I know she will be quite quick to suggest PND given my past history and I'd like to see if this passes a bit when I finally start adjusting to the new addition.

Thank you for asking though...are you sure you want to keep your HV to yourself?

pie - I can totally sympathise with you. Although my hv was actually ok about weight gain, I got totally stressed out about it, as ds was very 'sleepy' so we had to strip his clothes off, change his nappy and throw cold water on him. Dh did his best to help, but I'm afraid I snapped the day when he arrived home saying 'a woman in the bookshop had told him to hire the big electric pump from the hospital'. I do know he was just trying to help.

In your situation, I would suggest just feed the baby more often, and spend lots of time in bed with her. If dh is off work, then spend a couple of days just resting and feeding. I never found expressing did anything to boost supply - just depressed me, and made me feel like a dairy cow!

Hope you're feeling better - your baby will put on weight! She can't stay tiny forever!!!

PS - If you think it is PND then do seek help! Remember it does get better after these first few weeks (coping with the baby I mean!).

Oh Pie, my depression has put a huge strain on my marriage too. I think you take it out on those closest to you, so when I've been feeling down and moody all day, it's all unleashed on dh as soon as he walks in the door! He is an incredibly patient and forgiving man, but I feel there are times when I've pushed even him to the limit. I've screamed at him to get out of the house, to leave me, etc. TG he never does! But to me your reactions sound perfectly normal under the circumstances. Whenever I have one of those arguments with dh I usually do all my research on the internet and print out everything that I find for him to read. He then agrees that I'm right and we carry on!

My HV came round a couple of weeks ago to do dd's 3yr check. I hadn't told her I was pregnant as me and her don't exactly click anyway, so she was very surprised and probably a little miffed when she discovered just how pregnant I was. She then said to me "I presume you're going to get something permanent done about it now are you?"
Bitch!

So I just wanted you to know Pie that you are not alone. If ever you want to chat/moan please give me an email. I can moan about dhs and HVs until the cows come home! Just remind yourself that you will not feel this way forever, this is a temporary setback that will pass. As for GPs and the like, yes they do tend to over-exaggerate illnesses such as depression. I've had to fend off social services myself. There are so many people that want to get involved in my case I feel that I'm beating them back with a stick at the door! I don't know how you are expected to recover and lead a normal life with them hassling you everyday, making you go over things with them that you'd rather just forget about. Be strong. No-one can force you to accept anything you don't want to. Also don't let them label you as suffering from PND too easily. Just remember that your emotions are going to be high at the moment, that's normal. Also if my dh had said the things your dh had, I would have flown into a rage myself, that's normal too. You know your own state of mind, don't let others sow those seeds of self-doubt in you.

I wish you loads of luck!