Rant about HV, DH and PND

[pie]

wasn't sure which topic to put this in...feeling hysterically weepy. Got about 2 minutes until the babe wants feeding again.

DH took DD2 to baby clinic today (I'm still too immobile to get that far though did manage 100 yards with no crutches ). He gets back and tells me that the baby hasn't gained any weight since Thursday, this is on different scales mind you, and that HV has told him that if she hasn't gained by next week then she MUST be topped up with formula. Also that she should be drinking water as she is still a tiny, and I mean tiny, bit jaundice. I have read that bottles of water (and this is what she is talking about) are not so good for bf babies as it can mess with the sodium levels, but its fine for ff babies. And we should give her a dummy. She was rooting whilst I wasn't there, but no, not because she might have been hungry but because she needs a dummy.

Anyway DH comes home completely agrees with HV...I said that those growth charts are based on ff babies not bf...that shes not dehydrated, shes awake and becoming more alert every day and it was a different set of bloody scales. So DH gives me the 'fine I won't have anything to do with bringing up this baby' line and goes off in a huff, shouting at me that 'babies all over the world have formula and are fine'. I replied yes, but there is nothing wrong with DD2 so I don't want to give her formula, and that there is a really big history of allergies in my family. We aren't talking.

Dh has, since the day baby was born, been pressuring me to express milk so that he can feed her. Of course I don't have a problem with this, but I said I wanted to wait until bf was established and the earliest was about 6 weeks. DD2 is a lazy sucker! You really have to wake her up and take off nappies etc to get her to feed so I just feel that introducing a bottle now would only discourage her from the harder work of bf.

DH pressured me all the way through my pregnancy to have a c/s because of the SPD. How do you deal with a partner who believes in totally different things (none of which I knew before I got pregnant as it had never come up)

I don't know if his hostility to everything I do is why I feel so angry and weepy the past few days, why I want things to go back to how they were before I ever got pregnant. Don't get me wrong I love DD2, I wanted another baby, but its been nothing but heartbreak for months. I just want to run away. But given my history of depression I was wondering if I was feeling the first signs of PND rather than a natural reaction to everything.

I'm going to go to baby clinic next week, so HV can fight with me...but I'm worried as a condition of joining my GP's surgery is that I tick the box that agrees to 'Child surveillance' what does that mean??? That I have to see HV? Going to buy my own bloody scales.

Sorry for rant

I meant to add that I'm feeding every 2 hours 24 hours a day (so yeah being told its not enough has really boosted my confidence) and that DD2 has regained her birth weight...so I'm ok sticking to my guns right?

Phew, poor you...all most unfair. Just wanted to say sorry you're having such a afternoon, you must feel completely ganged up on.
Is it sunny where you are? Keep your DD in sunlight (even by a window inside is good) to help with the jaundice?
Anyway, sounds like you could do with some sunshine yourself, metaphorical and otherwise. Here's a sunny hug.

Pie it must be so hard. Is it you dh's first baby (you have another don't you?) If so maybe he just wants to feel part of it, I think it's natural for new dads to feel jealous. I should think that you are weepy because you feel under pressure. I remember when dd was born and I felt really awful after a 9hr general anaesthetic, I was exhausted and dh came in and made an off the cuff comment about how untidy the house was and I sobbed for about 3 hours and told him he was a vicious uncaring beast and that I was going to leave him etc etc.

If you do have a history of depression though, I would go and get checked out. Can you not tell your dh that his behaviour, although entirely normal, is putting you under pressure as you are feeling very hormonal and a bit depressed and could he just ease off a bit? Sort of shift the blame to yourself to try and get him to stop (I know you shouldn't have to but if it works...)

Biggest hugs to you (((((((((((((()))))))))))))

Oh and tell the HV to p*ss off.

I think that possibly you are suffering from a bit of PND and you are probably feeling a bit exhausted due to new baby. That's not to minimise or downplay anything that you have said - I would be frustrated with my dh too in your situation. Just trying to say that although you have genuine 'grievances' they are probably looming a bit larger than life at the moment due to possible PND etc. I know that was the case for me whilst I was suffering from PND.

Keep well - and seek help. Is there a health professional you can trust? - if not a HV, perhaps one of the GPs at your practice.

Pie - I wish I had some great stuff to tell you - I'm afraid all I can do is to tell you you sound like you're doing a great job and not to worry you're all just finding your feet now there's a new baby in the house. There is always a period of readjustment and DH is probably just feeling a bit out there hence his need to feed his DD. He'll just have to be patient though. Try to make him understand in a gentle way and go and have a cuddle with him. It'll all work out. TC xx

Pie this sounds awful. DH obviously wants to get involved, and I can see why he is upset when you are telling him he is wrong about everything (he is though)

Could you not explain to him that you don't really trust HV's, and get him to get his own info that is more reasonable? Could he call the NCT helpline or something to get a more pro-bf POV. They will surely tell him that weight gain is not such a huge issue, and that water is a big no-no. But if he's found that out himself rather than you (the expert or in his eyes, know-it all) telling him he might listen more.

Sorry if you don't agree pie and i know wothout having children of my own my opinion may not necessarily be welcome but i would think you DH is probably thinking that (as this is his first baby) that the HV must be right because she is a professional and therefore must know best.

I am not saying the HV does know best, as i am a great believer in "It's your baby, you know them best" it must all just be a bit new to your DH!

I know if you are truely annoyed then the last things you will want to do is sit down and talk to DH but if you wait until you have let of all your steam then sit him down and explain that you know he just wants to help, and you know he just wants whats best for the baby but just because the HV has a qualification it doesn't mean they always know best.

Hope you manage to sort everything out - Best of luck x

Pie, I'm sorry your having what sounds like a horrible afternoon, especially at the time in your life when your likely to be tired, emotional, and in need of a big hug. I agree that your DH might, if he's anything like my DP 'listen' more objectively to an outsider, so try to get him to find out for himself IYKWIM from some other more bf friendly sources. It sounds like he wants to help, in fact he sounds lovely, but some blokes do take the professionals a bit too seriously... funny when they never read the instructions or listen to directions from experts normally... only joking chaps Maybe he hasn't got the benefit of the insights we share on here or prior experience from No 1 baby to help balance everything.

pie, I'm amazed that your HV didn't come to you!With your history, she bl**dy well should!

FWIW, I wouldn't worry about not putting on any weight over 5 days,especially as it is a different set of scales your dd is being weighed on. If she is feeding well,peeing and pooing, she's doing fine.She doesn't NEED formula. She certainly doesn't need water for mild jaundice, she needs fluid....breast milk.If your dd is getting water to drink, rather than milk, she won't be getting any calories in her drink, will she?, so she will be less likely to put on weight. Your HV should not be pressuring you to give her formula, she should be supporting you in your choice to breastfeed. Also, it is none of her business whether or not you give your dd a dummy. It is certainly not something that is necessary. If you are having difficulties with feeding, you do not want to confuse your poor dd by putting anything other than a nipple in her gob!

As for your dh, I agree he is probably feeling a bit insecure, maybe a bit jealous, trying to help you out, but not knowing what to do.He probably will see the HV as a professional who knows everything, but we know better, don't we? Do you have a sympathetic GP who could visit you at home? Could you get a BF counsellor from NCT, LLL or whoever, to come round and give you some moral and practical support, from a pro-BF point of view? I know how difficult it is to keep going when everyone seems to be against you.

As far as I can see, you are doing everything fine, don't give up now.

Good luck

pie - I had the "drink water" for jaundice line too, and it's wrong wrong wrong! Everything I've read since has told me that the thing which makes them jaundice (forgotten the technical term now) is fat soluble NOT water soluble and water can actually make it WORSE. Best thing to do is JUST KEEP BREASTFEEDING! I was so cross that my midwife had given me such awful advice when ds had jaundice.

If your baby has regained her birthweight then I would say you are doing a fantastic job - really sorry to hear you're getting so little support.

pie - I agree with Tissy the HV should be coming to you (have not read any other postings from you so don't know how old your DD2 is or why you on crutches).

Call the HV and tell her you are committed to BF, you would like to discuss DD2's progress but cannot come to clinic. Our hospital/GP combo has a full-time BF counsellor (well 2, one in the hosp and one in the community) but I am beginning to realise we are lucky round here.

Surely if you have to agree to child surveillance they should assist you with this?

Also DH probably just new to it but think he should support you more. What is SPD btw?
Finally sounds like you need some support with PND.

I think you are doing a very good job and BF every 2 hours is certainly something I didn't have the patience for so I have total admiration for you.

Has your HV actually got any children? Mine hasn't and it puts her 'advice' in perspective IYKWIM. Sorry you're feeling so crap at the moment. I think you are right about sticking with the bf-ing. Those sodding centile charts are there purely to torment and worry us. I agree about your DH contacting a more knowledgable/positive 'expert' to put him more at ease about letting you do what you know is best for your dd. Good luck. {hugs{}}

I have found my DH (and my dad and brother come to that) seem far more susceptible to the advice of 'experts' and I think your DH has been swayed. My DH is the same not just with the way we raise our son '('the book says/the midwife said' but other things in general. You MUST go with your motherly instincts and HV has no right to query your baby's weight or tell you what to feed or or to give her a dummy.
Child surveillance, I was told, just means they wil call you in regularly for your baby's innoculations.
Cyber hugs and let mumsnetters' advice keep you sane.

stray winky there - must stop doing that!

A good article on jaundice:

here

in particular:

"Giving breastfed babies bottles of sugar water in hopes of reducing bilirubin levels has been shown to be ineffective. It may even aggravate the jaundice, because babies whose tummies are full of glucose solutions may nurse less often, reducing their milk intake and the opportunities for bilirubin to be excreted in stools."

and

"Don't worry, make milk. If your baby is jaundiced, be sure you understand what type of jaundice your baby has. If it's normal physiologic jaundice, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If it's jaundice due to a medical cause, such as a blood group incompatibility, be sure you understand that this is easily treated and should not interfere with your breastfeeding. Worry may cause you to make less milk and doubt your ability to nourish your baby at the breast. This gets in the way of breastfeeding success."

(I know they've told you to use plain water rather than sugar water, but it still has the same issues - fills their tummy up and reduces the amount of breastmilk they get)

And one more (sorry, I feel passionately about this - want you to get as much information as possible so you can stop being bullied by this horrible HV!)

Water for Babies

in particular:

"For example, in the first days after birth, drinking water has been found to increase the severity of newborn jaundice. "Babies who are breastfeeding well don't have much problem with jaundice," says Kirkham, "but those who are given water as well will become more jaundiced, and this makes them sleepy and lethargic.""

Could we have a national campaign to bin the centile charts? I don't know anyone who hasn't been stressed by them for some reason or another. They seem to be used by HV to keep themselves in a job - stress the 'new' mothers out by plotting their child on a useless chart and then tend to the depression of the mothers.

My HV was great but I still got upset as my whopper of a boy failed to follow his line.

Can you call gp surgery and ask for a dr or different hv to visit you at home, or perhaps a BF counsellor (NCT or otherwise)could come when dh is there to offer support. You do not need to give formula or use a dummy if she is feeding every two hours.

I'm not surprised you feel down -you've already had a difficult pregnancy and physical problems, plus the exhaustion of a new born, to contend with, without feeling undermined by health professionals and then your dh. I think I would have lost all will to fight back by now in those circumstances.

Hope you find the support you need.

Sorry Pie - meant to add my sympathies too!

It's just those charts make me so cross and I know that despite my best efforts I'll get sucked in with the next baby too. I won't give in, I won't...

Thanks Georgina, I too feel passionately about wrong advice for jaundice DD1 ended up in hospital when she was 3 weeks old with failure to thrive after her jaundice went undiagnosed...I asked mw and HV (different one from now) about DD1's colour and was told that she was yellow as I am half Thai!!! So I have been overly concerned if anything about DD2's jaundice, which is going. Infact HV today said she was surprised that since she came to the house (on Friday) that the colour had already gone down lots.

HV came to the house on Friday, I was napping, DH asked her if he should wake me up, she said not, she didn't need to talk to me, gave him a leaflet on PND and asked if he had heard about it, told him to bring her in today for weighing and was gone.

Considering that she has written letters to get me help with social services in the past because I was so depressed, suicidal even, that I couldn't look after DD1 fully I can't believe that she isn't interested in seeing me. Mind you I don't really want to see her, so maybe thats just as well.

DH have called a truce.

I know what you are saying prufrock and Jemma. Having had a child pre DH I try so hard not to get all 'well I have done this before' and I have never said it, but then he says 'you've done this before is this normal?' and I tell him what I did with DD1 and he is all 'oh ok...glad that you can reassure me'.

He just wants to do things differently...are more babies ff fed in America? I know that they are alot more medication happy there, or at least his folks are.

Middle of message disappeared...

DH and I have called a truce, he says he desperately wants to do more with the baby, I told him that right now theres not much to do but feed and change her, but that won't last and he will get all the time in the world...he says he doens't want to be a dad who doesn't know his kids.

He is a great dad and I'm glad he feels this way, just wish he would be a bit more patient!!

I have asked him to trust me more.

As to reading/talking to other professionals. Out of my 17 antenatal appointments he came to ONE. I have tried for months to get him involved, but he seems to pick and choose what he will listen to. I dunno, he thinks that bf is what hippies do!

F hell Pie, what is this stupid woman on? It makes me mad, it really does. I agree: your dp, not having come across HVs before, automatically accepted what he was told. Hey, I did too the first time round! I agree, your HV should come to you, definitely, given how immobile you are. Your Dp is trying to help, bless him, but does see things differently (partly being American isn't it, re the birth experience thing? Sorry if I'm wrong but IIRC we've discussed this before) plus it's all new to him. Dunno about the pnd but this little lot in one afternoon plus just having given birth and the pregnancy you had would be enough to get anyone down tbh. It strikes me though that given your history you should be getting extra support from professionals (NOT HVs, I mean your own health professionals - but did you ever see anyone good after the bad experience with the psych guy? can't remember) not be dealing with this kind of low level undermining of your ability/experience crap. Agree re a national campaign to get rid of centile charts but I also think we need a national campaign to reeducate HVs since so many of them seem to be in the dark ages without a clue. So sorry you're going through this pie but do let us know if there's anything else we can do. I'd get your dp to do his own research too if pos. Hugs.

I know this is pregnancy hormones talking, but I'm stunned at how furious and upset I am on your behalf pie! It's reminded me how much stress I was under thanks to the incompetent midwives and health visitors I saw in the early weeks of life with ds and how it completely sucked out any joy of being with a new baby. So not looking forward to having to run through that gauntlet again this time around.

Hmm, did someone say somewhere that the NCT do counselling for previous births? Think I might need to contact them

Anyway, pie, don't let the bastards get you down. Give your dd2 a squeeze and a big sloppy kiss and order your DH to give you some long overdue TLC.

You poor poor thing. Stick to your guns. I'm sure this idea is right about insecurity- my dh had two children with his first wife, and I was very much on the defensive because he had more experience with babies than me. We never had any real conflicts, but I always refused to take his advice because things had changed in the many years in between etc etc, but... mainly it was insecurity. I would imagine in some ways it's even worse the other way round, i.e. for your dh, because fathers are always slightly left out at this stage.
I'm not meaning to suggest in any way that's he's right, just trying to say I think this idea about his motivation is probably right.
As for the HV... I really wish there was a little furious face emoticon.