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Original poster

why do church schools have such good reputations?

122 replies

startingtobehalloweenylover · 26/10/2005 17:02

The best school in my area is a Catholic one and it would seem from various threads on here that this is the case in a lot of other places too...

but why? is it a respect thing? do church schools seem to have better "control" (for want of a better word) of the children... is it the school environment... is it just the kids that go there?

hmmmm

OP posts:
Enid · 27/10/2005 10:34

oh dont be ridiculous both of you. All schools are different. CofE schools DONT teach creationism as fact generally - maybe some do (i agree bonkers) but its absolutely NOT the norm.

Parp!

Enid · 27/10/2005 10:36

aloha dont you send your son privately?

so whats the beef? Its ok for you to choose how you educate your son but not anyone else? Maybe some parents can't afford private education but would still, madly, like to have their kids attend a school that performs well?

Blu · 27/10/2005 10:39

Oooops! Major apologies - the two bottom schools, sorted by AGV, whatever that means, are CoE, not Catholic!

Blu · 27/10/2005 10:42

No, most CoE schools do not teach creationism - that's why it only makes sense to look at individual schools, not 'generally.

I can't contribute any further, anyway, as I am taking a voluntary vow of silence as self-imposed pennance for my outrageous libel as exposed below .
And to do some work - as my overburdened humanist conscience dictates

Blu · 27/10/2005 10:48

BK: St Annes is 8th from bottom if you sort by VA - that's the nearest you get to a cathholic primary being in the lower half.

butty · 27/10/2005 10:58

I went to a C of E Highschool which was in top 5 of region.
I had to go to church every sunday with family to get in like so many others do.
I was naughty at school and was excluded on a number of occassions but they worked with me and the many others that wern't stereo typical type church going children.
Without the teachers and there ways of dealing with children like i was, i would have never passed all my GSCE's.
The problem now is that although it is still a church school, when i attended there was a 5% intake of academic, now its 25% intake of academic which to me defeats the object of being a church school as so many who attend church every sunday in the catchment area with letters from there vicars are turned away!!!!!!!
Bearing in mind i only left school 9 years ago that is a large jump to academic intake.
There is to much concentration of recognition for exam results etc.... and the church part goes outta the window.!!!

aloha · 27/10/2005 11:09

No, ds doesn't go to any school yet. He just turned four in September. I would only consider private education if the schools are really unsuitable for him. His PAEDIATRICIAN was the person who suggested that he might well struggle in mainstream education, which is hardly my or his fault. He just has the kind of mild special needs that can make it very hard for children like him to thrive in large classes etc. I am clearly not gagging to spend my entire income on school fees. It would be very much a last resort for us.
I fail to see why this means I cannot comment on what is IMO an utterly shocking system whereby nominally state schools are provided free ONLY for children whose parents hold certain supernatural beliefs, and not for others. Pure discrimination in my book, and one that radically reduces choice for many parents.

aloha · 27/10/2005 11:15

Butty - but what on earth has going to church every week got to do with school. I just don't get it at ALL. It's just like saying, but I vote Conservative. I am a member of the Conservative Party. I should have a school just for my children.
Of course you have a right to your political beliefs and to vote a certain way and even to encourage your children to think your politcal beliefs are good and true, but I don't think this means you have a right to send your children to a state school that says the same thing, or that excludes the children of parents with different political beliefs.

aloha · 27/10/2005 11:16

Surely education is what schools are for. They aren't churches! There are plenty of those for those who want them.

Gobbledispook · 27/10/2005 11:19

Totally agree with your last para aloha - ooh, it really gets my goat. All of my friends (except those I know through ds's school which is non-church) send their kids to catholic primary school - I really have to bite my tongue.

QueenVictoria · 27/10/2005 11:19

I thought faith-pretending was a countrywide thing? people wanting to have the whole "church wedding extravaganza" and then "lets get johnny christened so we can have a huge big welcome party for him". Why not do it again to ensure you try and get the best (in your opinion?) education for your child?

I dont know tbh what "creatonism" is. But i dont see the harm in teaching kids about things that has half the world at war most of the time. If it helps to teach a little about morals and community spirit in general along the way then that cant be harmful either. Im not so sure id be so bold as to call someone elses honest beliefs as "mumbo jumbo".....

When my DD is due to start school, i know that at present the best school in our immediate area is a C of E one. I would put her name down for it even though i dont go to church (i went to a c of e primary school as a child btw).

Gobbledispook · 27/10/2005 11:20

I meant of your 11.09 post - you've moved on!

aloha · 27/10/2005 11:22

Creationism is the belief that evolution doesn't exist, and that the world was made by God in seven days just as it says in the Bible. It is mumbo-jumbo of the highest order.
Lots of people believe in Scientology. Doesn't mean it isn't crap though.

aloha · 27/10/2005 11:23

And there is a huge difference between teaching kids about things, which is what schools are for, and teaching them that certain belief systems are objective truth which is what churches are for.

OrribleOliveoil · 27/10/2005 11:24

steady on with the mumbo jumbo line, lots of people believe in the Bible on here, I know it is your viewpoint but it is very rude. Would you get away with calling the Koran the same? Doubt it.

Gobbledispook · 27/10/2005 11:24

Agree with all aloha's posts actually.

I'm saying no more - I'm trying really hard not to have a row!

aloha · 27/10/2005 11:25

The Koran is worse IMO.
Even more profoundly misogynistic.
But they are all equally nonsensical IMO.

And with that...PARP!

QueenVictoria · 27/10/2005 11:29

Yes - im a non believer of god, i dont buy the whole bible story (but cant prove Jesus didnt exist.....) i still wouldnt dismiss what so many else live by as mumbo jumbo. (UNLESS they turn up on my doorstep uninvited at 8.30am on a Sunday morning questioning my beliefs and asking why i dont believe in God - it HAS happened. I defy anyone to be polite then..... )

Tinker · 27/10/2005 11:34

Good article by Johann Hari in today's Indie on this

Unfortunately, you'll have to pay to read it all. Think it'll be on his own website in a few days. But, he does say that Civitas (right wing think-tank ) "found that once you factor in the fact that they (faith schools) take brighter kids with far fewer problems, it turns out faith schools underperform compared to other schools".

They found that faith schools got better results for one simple reason - selection

Marina · 27/10/2005 11:35

For every lip-service family at church on Sundays, going through the motions to get their child a place at a "good" (whatever that means) school, there are inspiring, warm-hearted, faithful families and individuals who organise activities for parents and children in their spare time, visit sick people in the community and in hospital, garden for neighbours and support Christian relief work with no strings attached in some of the world's poorest countries. I think a lot of children could benefit from exposure to this kind of compassionate altruism, especially if their parents are venal hypocrites as described here.
Attending a church whenever possible on Sunday, and making a real effort to commit this time, has brought ds and dd into contact with some fabulous families and individuals who are lovely role models for them.
As OliveOil reminds us, please do not tar everyone who attends church with the same brush, or who wants a faith-based education for their child. Many of the people in the pews use Jesus' teachings as a reminder to try and do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly in a busy, consumerist society. It's a framework to use to try and live a better, kinder life, not an episode of the X Files.

QueenVictoria · 27/10/2005 11:39

Indeed Marina, that is the huge downside to our non believing.

Gobbledispook · 27/10/2005 11:39

I understand your point Marina, but why can't faith, and everything attached to it, be addressed in church and within the family? I don't see any valid reason whatsoever for faith schools - particularly when they are state funded and discriminate against those who are not part of that faith. I really don't understand how it can be justified.

Gobbledispook · 27/10/2005 11:41

And I do believe in God, I am CofE and, although not as often as I should, I do go to church. I don't send my children to a church school though.

twinsetandpearls · 27/10/2005 11:45

A well worded post Marina which echoes my experiences of Catholic education.

littlerach · 27/10/2005 11:46

Absolutely Marina.

I feel there si nothing wrong with having an education that emphasises the importance of morals and respect.