A rant about the sexist men I work with. Any advice welcome

[InvisibleWoman]

I've recently moved offices (same job, new office) and from sharing with two others, am not in an open plan office with 10 others. The other 10 are all men of a certain age, primarily ex military, who never seem to have worked with women before. Every day this week they have:

got coffees in for everyone else but me

asked everyone but me if they want to go to lunch

not introduced me (and only me) at an important
meeting, so I had to introduce myself and felt like a right divvy

told really nasty sexist jokes loudly in the office (eg why did the woman have two black eyes? She had to be told twice)

And today when the photocopier jammed when I was using it, one commented really loudly, "You should never trust women with cars or modern technology. They crash one and can't cope with the other without buggering the whole thing up." And they all collapsed laughing.

I said to this last that such comments didn't particularly bother me, but they should be careful making them in front of the other woman we work with as she almost certainly wouldn't appreciate them, and such remarks could get them into trouble To which I was told to "Get a life and a sense of humour."

The other woman is more senior than them, but she seems terrified of them, lets them walk all over her and is unlikely to back me up in any complaint. Any suggestions of how to handle them? The office where I work is 99.9% male, they see women as wives/mothers or secretaries and cannot cope with career women, so making complaints higher up the chain is unlikely to help.

Perhaps some jokes about small men might help in retaliation, or should I not bring myself down to their level?

Anyone?

Oh blimey. My first instinct is to say start looking for another job, they sound like utter pigs.

I think it's that pack mentality. Probably as individuals they would be OK but put them all together, strength in numbers, they egg each other on...and you end up with a situation like yours.

I honestly don't know what to advise - I hope someone else does. Much sympathy.

What industry do you work in? These men sound vile

Will think about what I'd do - would be very tempted to make cutting remarks about penis size and virility, tbh - but I'm v childish

Oh Lord.

Leave.

let me guess - advertising? Sales?

I mean, you could, as hm says - get down to their level, make similar remarks back. They would probably consider you to be a "good sport" then (ugh). But do you want that to be your working life? It shouldn't be necessary in the modern workplace to have to engage in stupid 'banter' in order to do your job.

I used to be the only woman in a team of about 12 very sexist men. I think the only way to deal with them is by standing up to them and being neither too frightened of them to say anything that might upset them nor trying to outdo them in their childish behaviour.
Be true to your own personality and hopefully they'll eventually come to respect you, and possibly even like you, for it and if they don't at least you'll still respect yourself.
Oh and try to ignore their silly jokes and treat their behaviour with the disdain it deserves. Don't comment on it if only to say that 'comments like that don't bother you' as they sound so immature that they'll take great pleasure in making worse and worse comments until they do find a comment that will bother you.
Hope this helps.

Defence related, hence the predominance of braying thick yockyocks. They are all fine individually (apart from the joke telling little shit who really is a mysoginist), but yes, you're right, it's the herd mentality.

tri-blumin-bunal. That is seriously out of order offensive behaviour. Dont suppose you're a member of a union are you? Document their behaviour, talk to your boss, tell them you are absolutely not prepared to tolerate this and if he/she doesn't take action you will. Sorry but this is just soooooo out of order it's untrue. The "joke" is just unbelievable. Don't tolerate it, don't stoop to their level. still can't get over that joke. what a bunch of dinosaurs

I am a chemical engineer and have worked in a predominantly male environment for 16 years. I have NEVER had this sort of abuse, even from hairy arsed scaffolders, fitters and electricians. I have had joke emails about why women are rubbish etc, but have sent why men are rubbish type stuff back - but it is in good fun, not harrassment. Don't put up with it! Talk to HR or your boss.

I don't want to leave, a) I like my job and am good at it and b) that would mean they have won.

Might try threatening a tribunal, but doubt that would help.

They always have the a/c on absolutely freezing in the office and a friend told me that one of them told her it's because they like to see "a nice bag of nuts on a filly!"

how about really pleasantly and calmly confronting them with their behaviour: 'look guys, i've noticed a few things, and I wonder why you're doing them?' perhaps not mentioning the jokes but rather the lack of being introduced.

may shame them into stopping?

i'm incensed on your behalf.

is there one of them that is less of a total f8cking pig then the rest? you really could do with an ally.

puts the lie into many women claiming that sexism is obsolete.

. If you have evidence of this sort of stuff and if your boss has one single brain cell then the word tribunal should make him/her shit his/her pants. You could aboslutely have them over a barrel if they don;t take action to stop this.

Dear God at the filly comment.

Can you print off case studies of tribunals for similar behaviour and post them anonymously to the office "for circulation"?

Personally, I think it's early days to think about a tribunal - hopefully you will be able to get it sorted out without resorting to that.
As for the air-conditioning, just wearing a nice jumper - that'll fox them.

There is one that is older and quieter and more pleasant, but he just seems to get sucked into it and acts the same as they do now. And he retires next month.

actually, if you could get a good lawyer and if you did record stuff i think hatstand is right.

it sounds absolutely appalling.

i was once in a dinosaur's office whilst he was on the phone and he said to the guy that he was talking to 'if you do it (some work related thing) sophable will give you a blowjob'. i let him know in no uncertain terms how i felt about it. didn't stop him being a prick for the rest of the time i was there tho.

Well you have three choices really dont you:

Leave (of course you shouldnt have to feel pushed out but it solves the problem)

Complain - make sure you make notes/diarise comments/incidents etc first.

Be yourself, but try and fit in with them the same way you would any other group of people and hope that eventually they accept you etc. Eventually you will be able to direct conversations away from things that offend you.

Only you can make the changes though.

Not always - im in the process of complaining about my line managers behaviour regarding my change to part time working/being a working mum. He doesnt crack jokes but says things to colleagues like "Dont have kids just yet - you are doing so well it would spoil it". Nice.

What a hard one!

I think perhaps you shouldn't be too collusive IYSWIM - the 'I'm not bothered but you should watch it with others', disempowers you!

What you need to say is 'actually, I find that comment extremely offensive so please keep your wise arse comments to yourself in future'!

Don't downplay it to them, you are important and your needs must be taken into account.

When they get a coffee - pick up your mug, wave it in the air and holler 'hey don't forget me'!

When they forget to introduce you say 'I must apoligise for my collegue, he's a bit backward coming forward' and so on and so on!

Importantly, log everything, absolutely everything. When you talk to HR say something like 'I'm so concerned - if the redtops got hold of this then the company would be in real trouble'! No threats, no blackmail, but implications!

Whatever you do, do not put up with it - it really isn't on

I agree with Vickitiredmum taht those are your three basic choices. No prizes for guessing which one I'd go for - complain in the strongest terms, ask what action they will take to stop it, ask for follow up meeting to check promised action has been taken, and make it very clear that you will consider what other options are available to you if their proposed action doesn't get results.

I have no idea why i typed Not always - in the last paragraph - it makes no sense at all! sorry bout that!

Thanks for your help. I'm going to bed now. I think keeping a log is a good idea. I'll lurk from work tomorrow!

don't mention anything about newspapers. That would very clearly be a threat and could be used against you. Also, I know the theory about complaining etc is all well and good but I realise it's difficult to do in practice. I feel so angry that you have been out in this situation.

i was in the army for 13 years and came across a few men like this (although far fewer than one might expect - and actually, fewer than my civilian girlfriends had to cope with. Often it's the men who feel they have to prove how masculine they are who are the worst). I realised that they wanted me to react so I just carried on as professionally and competently as I could and in most cases they realised that they were wasting their time and they were just making themselves look stupid. A few, though, were die-hard pigs and sadly nothing was going to change their minds. I'd advise against trying to beat them at their own game, and maybe single out one or two on their own to talk to if it's making your working life really unbearable.

Hatstand - I think it is possibly to have a conversation about newspapers without it being a threat

It's all in the delivery, I think