Do you think women in Britain are as free as they think they are?

[Pruni]

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i think a LOT of women are in thrall to men and do think they need to do anyrhing they can to get one.
but by no means all of us,,,, but then a lot of us here already have one so we don't have to make the effort any more! lol

i also think we are restricted by a nanny-state (if that's what you want to call it)

Interesting discussion - hope there are more posts

free to....yes
free from....no

I think that British people generally have an unrealistic idea of how free/generally better off people in other cultures are compared to them.

i think your palestinian friend has a point..

women in this country are not free to dress the way they want to. all the shops sell the same stuff. skimppy, cut for barbie doll lookalikes, which we all are not.

in the name of equality, women have lost the honourable position of baeing a mother and homemaker. yes, for those of us who want to have careers, fine, but those of us who cant are made to feel bad for staying at home after the kids have gone to school, and, i am generalising here, but being a bit of a parasite on our men. i wish i could say this more eloquently, but im not very good with language.

also, the benefits system, which was set up to protect children, and their mothers, has imo backfired terribly. many men no longer think they are responsible for the kids they have. benefits meanthey know the kids wont go hungry, etc etc. i know that all men are not like this, but i think there are probly more such men here than in countries where there are no such systems in place. why else would the csa be in 'meltdown'

and i just think women are expected to do too much in the uk.

i have seen some cultures, from the inside, in which women are supposedly subservient to men. and i know that is not the case. yes, there are some things they cannot do, but within their niche they have far far more frreedoom than i think generally women in the west have.

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I don't realy give a tinkers cuss what men think I look like and I deffinatly don't feel I have to dress to please tham. I am only interested in what dh thinks of me and since he saw me through labour, and still loves me!, I don't think that he realy cares that much what I look like either.

I have been free to work when I want to, in the jobs that I want to, I've been free to be a SAHM and 'housewife', I have access to my own money, have educational parity with all the men i work with, and I have an equal relationsip with my DH.

Do I think I'm free, you betcher!

No, I don't think we're as free as we think we are. I don't feel in thrall to men but I am aware that if I dress provocatively and get raped, I might be accused of contributory negligence. Ditto if I walk anywhere alone, late - something awful could happen to me and that's not a) freedom or b) sometihng men have to consider as much. And I think we are ALL unfree (what's the word I want? Fettered? I don't know, am knackered too!) because we are tied to mortgages, and therefore to jobs and the rat race and we aren't able to be authentic really or to always keep sight of what ought to be important in life: our needs for things (which have been sold to us by marketers) keep us working to make money mostly for other people so that we can buy more and consume more and probably spend less time doing the things we really enjoy. Well, unless you have a deeply satisfying fulfilling job anyway and most people don't. I'm reading Authentic, how to make a living by being yourself and there's abit where he talks about how mad it is that a council in Glos went to huge effort and expense to prosecute a family for living in the woods because they refused to pay electricity bills (they didn't have any electricity! It was solar power and stuff iirc) and what madness it all was. Anyway, interesting question Pruni although I'mnot coherent enough to say much on the subject.

pruni, thats what i am trying to say. just not very good at it.
women here feel pressure to go out and earn. in many cultures of the world, that just isnt the case. the family might not be as well off, but it is a worry that women are free from. and men who 'live off' their wives are considered somehow 'less'
so for example a man who needs his wife to give up breastfeeding their baby to go to work to help pay the mortgage isnt being the provider he should be. unless the woman wants to for her own sake..i think i am simplifying the situation/not putting it very well, as there are always shades
of meaning.
and as for clothes, well i think that the general trousers/top skirt top combination isnt one that looks very elegant on a lot of women. but that is what is worn and available in the shops. in the summer, strappy tops are available everywhere, but light cotton loose clothing that would actually be better for the summer weather isnt available anywhere, unless you make it yourself. the shops sell lots of dresses in artificial fibres, but in the summer, it is better to wear cotton.not available, so we all wear skimpy tops!

sorry long, and not very well said im afraid. i just dont think we have the freedom we think we have

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www - your stream of consciousness made a lot of sense to me. Will look out for that book.

hmb, i very glad that you are happy with your lot in life. but i dont think everyone is as lucky.

stich - agree with som eof what you say (re loose cotton clothes etc - had never thought of that) but find the bit about the man wanting the woman to go out and work although she is BF a bit odd. Maybe I am a bit sensitive because I am bf'ing DD2 and need to go back to work this month to pay the mortgage, but is certainly is not DH "sending me back" - we are both responsible for the mortgage so I take on responsibility for it and for not getting us into massive debt as it is based on both our salaries. Wish that it were other though.

very interesting thread

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i am sure that you are quite right, i am very lucky. however the question was' do you think that women in britain are as free asthey think they are.' and as a woman in gb i feel my view is as valid as anyones. i don't think it is iuniversal, any more than thebexperiences of any woman anywhere.

Intersting! Talking a lot about this at the moment as I have a Kurdish girl with me from very conservative Eastern Turkey.It's areal eye opener for her,but I have tried to point out some of the things that stitch has mentioned-the fact that men are largely expendable as providers which isn't good for anyone for one thing.

pruni - was just thinking today that i could well do with not having to go back to work at all. For a while at least. But I don't fancy shouldering half of the "digging us out of debt" burden if I were to do that.

Still dreaming of a major downsize. Just don't have time to think about it seriously!

mp, as i said, i am not verbalising it very well, and am simplifying it as well.
in all marriages that are working, both partners share responsibilty jointly. so if you both choose to take on a mortgage, and both work for it, thats very commendable. but i think i used the breastfeeding analogy as this was the case with a friend of mine, in the same situation as you.
sorry, have lost my train of though. must reread posts.

I would agree w/your Palestinian friend.

Just look at some of the threads on here - at the behaviour some women put up w/from their partners, as if that's just all the best they can do, and that a woman is somehow 'lucky' to find a man who pulls his own weight in the home.

sorry, thats it.
the idea of sending you back to work. of course that isnt the case with you. but you are in a marriage that is working. both of you make joint decisions etc etc. the number of single parent families in the uk is a pointer towards just how much women have lost of their freedom and independance. a lot of men just dont take their responsibilites seriously and leave the moms to do double the job

stich - that's true and I take your point. i am lucky that we share everything equally (although sometimes i wish we didn't [as I really don't want to return to work yet] and that feels really weird coming from an established feminist I can tell you)

I see many Western women complicate their lives needlessly. Much more so than I saw in other, non-Western cultures. This is a gross overstatement, but it's almost like there's a need for melodrama to liven things up. Also a lack of personal responsibility which means placing major decisions about one's life in someone else's hand. Absconding is still a decision, however.

Just my opinion and again probably a gross overstatement, but based on my experience.