Do you think women in Britain are as free as they think they are?

[Pruni]

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I love cooking,sewing and looking after my home.
However,I choose to do all of these things.
Noone expects me to.

good lord I missed half the thread when I was penning that message! what interesting thoughts...

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I agree with what happymerryberries has said, I think that women in Britain, including me, have tremendous freedoms and opportunities compared to their mothers, grandmothers etc (don't know about other cultures, haven't ever lived anywhere else but here, so don't feel qualified to comment). I think that instead of moaning about 'being forced' to wear skimpy clothes we should all look at what we can do and thank our blessings. Even the ability to stay at home and look after her children was a luxury that not all women had, many working class women were forced due to financial necessity to either work outside the home or do things like 'take in washing' plus they probably had so many children (lack of contraception) that they wouldn't have had the time/energy/inclination to be the kind of SAHM that many of us would like to be, even if they were at home.
Was talking about this today. My gran worked as a shop assistant once my mum and her brother were at school. She was a very intelligent and capable woman and used to (unofficially) deputise for the buyer in her department when he was on holiday. When he was promoted, my gran wanted to apply for his job, a job which she was more than capable of, but wasn't allowed to because she was (shock horror) both married and female!

hmb, sadly that is the case.
but in defense of islam, can i just say that it is not religion that forces this, but culture. islam has actually given women a great many freedoms. but cultures have taken them away.

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mp, my gran might have stayed at hoeme and lacked the responsibility to work but she had the responsibility of making bugger all money last the week and cover the costs of raising her kids. Just because she got to stay at home didn't me she ducked the finacial responsibility!

And my other gran was even worse off, she had to work because her dh dies, but because she was only a woamn the only job she could get was claening a public lavatory. If she saw my choices she would think I was living in heaven, and along with me every woman in the UK.

She raise 4 kids on her own through the 30's with no social security at all. I know that it is crap now, but at least kids don't go bearfoot (as my mother and her sisters did)

Sorry, pruni, yes it was

hmb - you are right - I'm sure I could stay home if I where prepared to manage purse strings the way our grannies did. I'm just not cut out for that either.

And remember that many professional women had to give up work if they got married. Teachers , nurses and civil servents all had to quit.

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Well in saudi she can't drive or use her own passport without her dh's permission. She can't sit with another man , unless he is a relative, or even use the same escalator.

Swap woman for black and you have aphartied....and we all knew how free that left the Blacks in SouthAfrica

and btw I said saudi not islam

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i moved back to saudi arabia for two years before i got married. once got over the initial difficulties of moving back into parents home and not being a child anymore etc, i think i had more freedom there than i do here. and this despite not being able to drive etc. i was materially quite well off at the time, earning, no bills to pay etc as living with parents,so maybe that had something to do with it, but i am lucky not to have to worry about returning to work to pay the mortgage her either. far more freedom there imo

But how much freedom would you have in an unhappy relationship in Saudi? Here if you are unhappy you can more out....agreed with difficulty. If you are unhappy there and a saudi nations your choices are far more restricted?

(sorry I don't know if you are a Saudi or not IYSWIM)

not driving was bliss, i had a driver to take me to and from work. he worked in a travel agency, but was doing this for extra money. all my friends did similar things too, and when we wanted to go shopping, we would get them to come drive us, or get taxis. would sit relaxedly in the car whilst someone else dealt with traffic conditions

shopping. fantastic. much better than in the uk. never heard the escalator thing before.
black abaya, well, i have to wear a coat in the winter, and in the summer, well its just too hot here, and hardly anywhere is airconditioned etc. oh, and an abaya can be worn over dirty clothes could do with that as a mom.

hmb, i do appreciate you said saudi, not islam.

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i agree. as i said, i was not married then, so dont really know what i would do.

im not saudi. parents are expats. so i suppose expatinsaudi

I think in the end a comparison you can make is 'If you are unhappy with your life how easy is it for you to change it?' This could encompass all levels of finances. If your are Rich in the UK and Rich elsewhere and poor in the UK and poor elsewhere. If you unhappy what choices do you have? What decisions are you free to make? How much control do you have over your life? and if you are going to make a meaningful comparison it has to be like for like.

i suppose that is actually it. its all finances permitting. if you have some dosh, you have more choices. if you dont, then i suppose your position on the globe is immaterial

as i said, i cant really compare myself in saudi, coz different stage of life.

Becaus I'd put money on still being freer in the UK if poor , compared to being poor elsewhere, due to the cultural freedoms that we largly take for granted, and the extra stuff like free access to contraception etc

being a wife at home in saudi mught be very nice,( I think it would drive me insane, but that is me I suupose) but if you can't control your own fertility how free can you realy be?

personnally i have never met anyone who has not had access to contraception. it might not be free, but they can get it. but i think that is a very good point

if i lived in saudi now, i would be freer, as i would have the life i have now, without the driving. and possibly i might even be able to afford to work, [cheaper childcare]

My understanding was tha the husband had to agree to the use of contraception in Saudi, am I wrong on that?