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Original poster

If you saw a child screaming.....

89 replies

Jimjams · 05/09/2005 15:55

straining, and hitting themself on the head (age 6) and a man dragging them off in another direction would you think they were being abducted?

How about if it was the same scenario with a woman?

OP posts:
jampots · 05/09/2005 18:24

obviously and only let him wear it when he's going out with his dad

tortoiseshell · 05/09/2005 18:26

That's a good idea jampots!

katierocket · 05/09/2005 18:28

But people giving horrified stares (awful though it is for the person being stared at) doesn't mean that they think the child is being abducted, they might just think "gosh, what a horrible child/bad parent", in the interfering way that some people have.

jampots · 05/09/2005 18:32

not sure how nice looking your dh is Jimjams but if not too horrific then scan a photo of ds and dh onto said tshirt

aloha · 05/09/2005 18:32

He is staggeringly attractive Jimjams. He really is. I think most people don't think about other people at all. Not in the slightest. They live in their own bubble are are taking no notice of your dh. If they are staring they are just doing it as if they are watching telly - it's a bit of entertainment. I don't think he should worry. And I wouldn't know a PECs book if someone waved it in my face, so I don't think that would help.
I think it sounds as if your dh is going through a stage of feeling self-conscious about his son. Most of us do to some extent when are kids are a bit odd I think. Sort of embarrased.Do you think that might be the case. It's not a criticism, btw, I feel like that about ds sometimes.

Lonelymum · 05/09/2005 18:35

A long long time ago (about 34 years ago) I brought home a friend from school without either of us checking with our mums. We were about 7. My mum naturally told us we shouldn't have done that and went to ring my friend's mother (who was pg at the time) to let her know her dd was safe. At that, my friend thought she was in big trouble and decided to run away. My mum and I had to hop in the car and tear after her, eventually finding her near to a main road. My mum got out of the car and tried to persude her to get in. There was a man and woman (strangers to us and each other)standing nearby. I well remember the woman trying to assist my mother to get my distraught friend into the car, even though she didn't know her, and the man, at the same time, trying to prevent my mother doing it.

I often think about that scene even all these years later and wonder what on earth must have been going through the adults' heads.

essbee · 05/09/2005 18:35

Message withdrawn

Caligula · 05/09/2005 18:35

Dunno. I'd probably think it might be an SN child, or an extremely badly behaved child, or least likely, an abduction.

I don't think any of those options is particularly stupid - if it's a bunch of complete strangers, you know nothing about them and there's no way of telling what's going on. And if a child ever is dragged away kicking and screaming from a public place and later murdered, and all the passers-by claim that the reason they didn't interfere is because they assumed the child was SN, how would we all feel about that? (Okay okay, I know that's not likely to happen. But I always think that within reason, it's better for people to interfere and risk getting a mouthful for being ignorant, than to ignore and wish later that they'd intervened.)

Caligula · 05/09/2005 18:37

And I think I'd rather someone asked me outright "are you related to that child or are you trying to abduct him/ her?" than gave me horrified stares. Horrified stares are the least useful form of intervention, imo.

essbee · 05/09/2005 18:40

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Jimjams · 05/09/2005 19:22

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SoupDragon · 05/09/2005 19:35

PECS would mean nothing to most people - I only vaguely know what they are through MN. If I saw your husband wearing a bizarre apron with buttons on it, dragging a screaming, fighting child though the streets I would think he was a wierdo child abductor!

Seriously though, I would tell him not to worry. If anyone suspects something amis then all he has to do is be prepared to explain. It would soon be glaringly obvious that your DS1 has special needs when he can't communicate. Most people would guess at SN of some sort but for the few who don't I guess it's better that they question behaviour they see as suspect rather than let one child who is genuinely in danger be abducted. Tough one.

Original poster
Jimjams · 05/09/2005 19:43

he really wouldn't get a chance to explain when out and about- and I think it's the knock on the door he's worried about, Sounds like we'll just have to hope that everyone is too busy in their own lives.

Of course its getting worse as it's getting dark so looks more suss.

The ideal is that the behaviour will get less "ahem" challenging I guess (read dreadful). DS1 is improving, as his understanding of language improves, but it's slow. I stopped the beach dragging by saying "lets go swimming" and he responded. Initially I'd been saying "lets go to the sea" and he ignored that- guess he didn't know what I meant. We need to practice creative instructions. Although it's harder for dh as he has less time with him.

OP posts:
Tortington · 05/09/2005 19:43

if a child was being dragged away by an adult screaming i can honestly say and i am being very honest here that i would only think "shut up"

there

Original poster
Jimjams · 05/09/2005 20:15

well I think that!

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NotQuiteCockney · 05/09/2005 20:27

I saw a man in a mall today, with a three or four year old kid. He was forcing the kid onto the escalator up out of the mall. I was a bit concerned, so I listened, and heard the adult making the sort of "well, you misbehaved" sort of speech parents make when dealing with a tantrummy annoying child.

I do think the sort of people most likely to interfere are parents, and parents are reasonably aware of nuance, I hope. DH and DS1 will be walking, so people can hear and see them for a little while, IYSWIM, to get that nuance.

The harness would also help. I would assume a child of that age on a harness had SN.

Original poster
Jimjams · 05/09/2005 20:31

I would hope so as well NQC. But when we took a ferry last year (last time ever) ds1 was dreadful. A man sat and watched us for 2 hours (I was 5 months pregnant with ds3- dh and I took turns with ds1)- he had 2 youngish children. After 2 hours he looked at me as I was trying to get ds1 off the floor, curled his lip and shook his head in disgust. I thought if he was oblivious with 2 youngish children then we didn't really have much hope.

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NotQuiteCockney · 05/09/2005 21:30

People can be real jerks.

I do sometimes find myself thinking "why does a child that big have a dummy?" or "why is a child of that age screaming in a supermarket?" and other similarly unhelpful thoughts, but I always try to remember, I don't know the circumstances. There's always a reason, of some sort.

starlover · 05/09/2005 21:34

even thouhgh you have loads of replies i thought i'd add my 2 pence worth!

i would probably think it was a bit odd to start with, although i think i would soon realise that perhaps the child had sn.
but only because of the hitting themself bit.

i would imagine that most children of that kind of age would shout help or something if they were actually being abducted... and the hitting themselves certainly doesn't make it look like an abduction IMO

i don't think it would differ if it was a woman either. if i just saw a child screaming in a VERY distressed way then i may think something weird was going on (abduction possibly), but not combined with the headbanging

Original poster
Jimjams · 05/09/2005 21:41

Thanks for all your thoughts. I think SD had it right it is a tough one. I don't really care when out and about how we look (and I don't think dh cares that much), but sometimes afterwards I do wonder.

I am amazed at how often we can be very close to people (eg bloke in a boat) and they don't see aything other than normal. And their mind therefore reaches conclusion of "brat". Funnily enough the men are usually OK - I usually get a harder time from Mother's. (childless men are best of all) That's why I posted ds1's photo- I think people do just see "normal". Not that it's any easier if your child has obvious learning difficuties- a friend has this with her dd and she's had some really awful things said to her (far worse than I've ever had).

I'll carry on telling dh to get on with it Apparently tongiht he was fine altghough he did try to leg it up someones path when he saw they were going to open their front door (he is soooo nosy he loves a good look in someone's house).

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starlover · 05/09/2005 21:47

sounds like me jimjams! i usd to do my brotjhers paper round sometimes and i used to look through the letterboxes to see in their houses!

starlover · 05/09/2005 21:48

just saw the pic... he is really lovely jj! you must be really proud of him

Original poster
Jimjams · 05/09/2005 21:49

ha ha - he got chased down the street with a man with a stick (with dh pmsl) for looking through a letterbox. Dh shouted "sorry couldn;t stop him" and legged it.

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NotQuiteCockney · 05/09/2005 21:50

I met someone at a local library once whose 2 year old girl would shout "Help!" in a very desperate voice, whenever she wanted anything. She would shout this if, say, you were taking her out of the park before you wanted to go.

I gather her father found removing her from the park somewhat stressful.

starlover · 05/09/2005 21:51

lol! bless him