Re-usable Nappies - Want to be greener but help needed to get going

[Wills]

I've always wanted to be a little greener, unfortunately though with dd she was in disposables all the way. With only 5 weeks to go I'd really like to get myself kitted out to use re-usable but I'm completely lost as to where to start. Ideally I would like to find a company that clean them for me as I'm "not good" with pooh at the best of times hence why I failed first time round. I have a number of questions but would be grateful for any advice.

1. My dm is adament that disposable allow the baby's bottom to "breath" better thus preventing nappy rash. She's full of doom and gloom that if I use cloth nappies I will constantly be fighting the dreaded nappy rash. True/False.
2. There are sooo many different types and they are rather expensive - what in everyone's experience where best?
3. How do you go about finding a company to do the cleaning for you? Are they dependable? Do they supply the nappies or do you have to buy an initial load? (images of sewing names tags into nappies comes to mind).
4. If you are using a company to do the cleaning did you ever have qualms about using a piece of cloth that other babies could have poohed on?
5. Are cloth nappies any good for b/f babies? With dd her pooh was shooting out the ends and I get the impression that cloth nappies are far looser than dipsoable.
6. If you do clean your own - how the heck do you cope with that on top of everything else

Would very much like to hear from people who are using re-usable nappies to hear their experiences.

Wow - what a fantastic response. Well you've all given me a lot to think about and wade through. I've even told dh to log on and have a look. Most of you seem to be doing the washing and you've certainly made me re-think my original thoughts about doing the washing myself. I think that I will do the first couple of days in disposables whilst the meconium comes out but would definitely like to have the re-usable nappies ready for afterwards. There are some really brilliant tips in this lot such as timers on tumble dryers and the links to companies that let you try out different types - fab - thanks - I found with dd that its a case of different disposables fit differently so I'm sort of expecting the same from washables.

One question - what do you mean by "dry pail" method being less smelly. What is "dry pail"?

HZL - there's nothing wrong with being an eco-warrior . It was more the 25 years needed for a nappy to break down that is persauding me to investigate this avenue more than the chemicals near little one's bottom although reading everyone's comments has certainly given me a lot to think about.

I'm going to and try out all the sites, thanks for all your help, and really give this a go. It sounds like doing your own is not too bad a deal but at the same time I don't want to "stumble at the first hurdle" by giving myself too much to cope with. As many of you say it is daunting the idea of washing all those nappies, but someone has raised a good point that the nappies that are delivered by the washing services are not so good. My dh will love the idea of saving money as well and he's ever so good at doing the washing.

Once again, thank you all.

Oh and sorry but I live near Potters Bar, just North of London

"Dry-pail" means that you don't soak the nappies. The old-fashioned way was to soak dirty nappies in the bucket, before you wash. Plenty of real-life experience to prove that soaking isn't necessary with good liners (I double liner, actually), and effective modern washing machines. But the older generation often still believe fervently that soaking is essential. My MIL insists on soaking when we go to her house. My uncle and aunt were saying they never used liners at all, and one 50-yr-old friend still thinks cloth nappies should be rinsed in the toilet (blech!). So no wonder that generation thought soaking was needed.

Hi Wills - thought that the answers to dry-pailing might now raise some questions about liners for you. You use a liner in a washable nappy to keep the wet away from bum and also to make it easier to get rid of the poo. You can get disposable liners but that seemed to defeat the object for me so I've got some fleece liners instead. Fleece is meant to be excellent as it doesn't hold wet but allows it to pass through and poo apparently pings off really easily. The fleece liners I got were only a few quid for 12 from Zaybeedoo but lots of mums just get fleece and cut it to size.

I'm gutted that I was working this weekend, and missed this thread! All the q's have been answered brilliantly, so I have nothing to add, really.

Good luck and weel done to all you new clothies. You won't regret it!

TOTSBOTS TOTSBOTS TOTSBOTS

So your vote would be for totsbots then Tissy .

Could I add another question?

Like a few others, I tried washables (Kooshies) first time around, but found they leaked, were bulky and the coating on the outside chafed my dd's legs terribly. I'm expecting no 2 in the New Year and really want to try again, and all I've read on this thread has convinced me it's worth another try.

However, in addition to her eczema, dd1 (now 2.5) has reflux on both kidneys (making her prone to urinary infections). For this reason I was wary of persisting with washables because I assumed that disposables would hold the wee better.

I've been told that it's quite likely d?2 could also have both these conditions. I can see why washables would be better for eczema (no nasty chemicals), once you found the right shaped one that didn't chafe, but what advice do people have about the 'dryness' issue?

Utka - I used kooshies myself and found them very wet and murder to get dry. I've asked a few times on the UK parents forum and everyone basically told me to sell them on and try something different.

All nappies will only hold so much and then feel wet - its more a question of which wraps etc stop the leaks so if you want her to be dry then change often and use fleece liners to keep the wee away from the skin. I would say that disposable nappies actually kid you that they keep baby drier just because they have those cystals to hold the water, but if that means you leave them on longer then surely there is more risk of infections etc so better to use a washable and change more often.

The other good thing about washables is that you can to some degree control how much they hold by using boosters etc.

Utka, I have found TotsBots to be highly absorbant, just as absorbant as any disp IMO and you can add an extra booster if necessary. Fleece liners leave your baby's skin lovely and dry as do nappies that are all fleece in the inside. HTH.

I'm too slow today.

Another vote for fleece liners - I bought my first few, but then bought some fleece (on Ebay, of course) and cut it to size.

Just a word of caution about buying nappies etc on ebay. While there are some very good bargains on there some of the nappies actually go for silly prices. Its always worthwhile checking how much they go for new - do a quick search on google for the nappy name - as most of the WAHMs have their own websites anyway. The other place that they sell their nappies is www.wahmall.co.uk - prices tend to be a lot lower on here. This is especially true for wipes and liners.

Fleece liners are useless with tots who have very runny bottoms (trust me on this one Girls!). They were fine with my 2nd child, who appears to have a more "normal" consistency. I don't see how anyone can use fleece liners with 100% breastfed babies. But fleece does keep the skin relatively dry (Utka).

I quite like Boots' disposable liners because you can hang them up to dry if only wet and reuse. Or if dirty wash by putting them into a mesh sock bag (run risk of them clogging up the pump or filter, otherwise), and throw in with other dirty nappies. Effectively they're disposable reusables.

Oh dear. This thread is getting very anoreck-y, isn't it???

Utka - have you considered using Moltex Oko disposables? At least part of the time. They keep the baby's skin at least as dry as a disposable and contain no lotions or perfumes, so they could be excellent for eczema.

Hello I'm new to mumsnet and hope you don't mind me adding to your thread. We did use Cotton Bottoms to start with for ds but his poo was so explosive I got fed up with mopping up the floor, his clothes, my clothes etc, though I did think their service - we used their laundry service - was very good. We now use Nature Boy and Girl nappies (from Sainsburys and Waitrose) which are made from maize and, I think, biodegradable. Ds has never had nappy rash with these.

Can I just add that the Nature Boy and Girl nappies are extremely soft so no chafing or soreness. They're about the same price as other disposables.

As far as I know all the "greener" disposables (Moltex, Tushies, Nature Baby) are not really THAT green. Its not just about the amount of time they take to decompose but also the process of making them. The advantage of them is that they use less chemicals etc to absorb the wee etc so kinder for your baby but I don't think there is any evidence they are kinder to the environment. The only disposable system I know of which is are the weenies pads which fit into their own wraps or many other wraps. These do decompose within 150 days so are much much greener but I've heard mixed reports about how effective they are. Can't really comment though as haven't used them but am thinking about them for holidays etc. Mind you they are imported from Australia so you have to think about "nappy miles" too! I think the only UK supplier is lollipop

We used nature baby with DD thinking we were greener. Have to say found them fine as a nappy but having read up more about them if its green issues which are prompting you then best go for washable nappies (and hemp is greener than cotton as it uses less pesticides just to complicate things but takes more drying!)

I too use Moltex nappies, and they are apparently greener to manufacture than other disposables as well as partially compostable. When I put DD in Huggies her skin is permanenetly damp, but in Moltex it is completely dry. With Nature B&G I kept getting gel leaking into the nappy.

Whoops posted too soon.

I don't like prefold systems - everything leaks and the wraps chafe and make skin sweaty - but I do like the Motherease onesize nappy and another all-in-one called something like FuzziBunz (can't remember exactly but it's fleece plus booster of choice inserted between fleece layer and wrap layer)

been reading this thread with interest as i'm such a nappyholic... but you've all given such good advice already... so everything really has been said... all i will add is that persevere when starting with cloth, as by the first week i was already to switch back to sposies... i had so many leaks and huge bottom uncomfortable baby looks... it took a lot of trial and error and after a lot of buying and selling and discussion on other message boards (as well as on here of course!) - which i must add buying and selling is a lot of fun as well!!!!... i found my perfect system... fuzzibunz and ellas house with rikki wraps (the one with poppers!).... plus dry pailing is the way forward for me... naps come out beautiful in the wash, no need for soaking and there is nothing better than my yellow fuzzi clad babe running around the garden in the warmth, whilst my naps wave merrily in the breeze....!!!

oh dear do i sound really sad!... apologies!

Small setback. I had thought my dh was thoroughly behind this but after a discussion with him last night and him discovering the reality of the upfront cost he's now quite anti. I know that Alvin Hall did a cost comparison some time ago showing that re-usables were cheaper however I could only find something last night showing a saving of a maximum of £600.00 over the entire time. DH was not swayed by this saying this was probably using really expensive disposables and the child remaining in nappies until they're 3+. I countered this with the fact that we used pampers for dd and these could hardly be considered the cheaper range however he's now decided that its ok to do as long as I do the washing - pah not going down that route, we're 50/50 in terms of nappies in this house and I don't want him to have ANY excuse. Anyone know of any recent surveys?

A pack of pampers is about £5.50 a pack, roughly 2 packs a week = £11 a week, 130 weeks (till child is 2.5) = £1,430 on nappies.

I have spent roughly £300 on nappies and wraps to last dd2 till she is 2.5. So thats a saving of over £1,000! I wash wee nappies in with other things, towels, sheets etc so don't even do an extra wash for those nappies.

Is that right? Can't really remember how many disposables you get through...

Wills, I do have some sympathy for your DH's point of view, because it does seem very easy to keep spending on all these various different nappies etc....and there is a huge difference price wise between different systems -its not necessary to spend loads, just very tempting
My suggestions are:

• work out how much you might spend on disposables and agree what sort of savings you are expecting out of this - this should help to indicate a reasonable budget -do plenty of research about different systems keeping an eye on price -don't buy a lot before the baby is born; buy gradually, one of each type you are interested in - try each new type before you buy a lot of them; don't buy more than you need (i.e. more than one full washing load!) -depending on how your babies tend to grow, you might consider waiting a month or two before starting with cloth so that you can skip one size of wraps - older babies grow much more slowly so you get a lot longer out of each size

I've spent about £120 for ds so far - we only started using cloth on him about 4 months ago (he's now 20 months) - I've bought a few examples of one-size shaped nappies to try on the new baby which I can also use on him. I'm not intending to buy anything more for the baby until it arrives, apart from a couple of wraps to try for size.
Good luck and HTH

1 - no nappy rash EVER -only once when away for the weekend and in disposables. It's the bacteria in the wee that causes nappy rash not the wetness. Disposables only keep wetness away and leave the bacteria on the bum. Because it feels "dry", parents then leave the nappy on for longer mistakenly thinking their baby is "protected".
2. Tots Bots are bomb proof, good value and may last for baby no2.
3. nappy laundering services tend to use prefold nappies which aren't as great at containment.
4.Hadn't thought of that, but would rather wash my own anyway.
5. 2 washes a week last thing at night. 10 mins extra work?

Apologies for repeating, haven't had time to read everyone properly.

Wills - average of 4500 nappies from birth to potty.

Financial advantages of cloth